neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Feb 4, 2023 10:32:00 GMT
I once got told that Paul Foot had security connections but I imagine they weren't voluntary, or that he knew them because he'd worked out who they really were, or it was people like Clive Ponting. However, when I started at my current employer, a much older colleague who was dealing with strikes in the late 70s and 80s told me that a fair number of well known journalists, TV people etc were, if not actual MI5 agents, informants of a sort. Including (allegedly) a number of those who you wouldn't think of.
Presumably this was mainly journalists telling a friend (whose job was a bit vague) they regularly saw at dinner parties when the next SOGAT walk out was planned for or whatever, and also a number were people like Whiteley with known sympathies who could be relied upon to make a documentary that might influence a jury. And a few were no doubt people with obvious security connections who shared information intentionally without actually being a regular asset: not specifically naming them but people like Peter Jay and Joe Haines might very well fall into that category. So nothing beyond what you would expect.
But the thought that someone like Polly Toynbee was actually a deep cover MI5 asset is delicious.
|
|
|
Post by greatkingrat on Feb 4, 2023 10:47:00 GMT
Maybe Countdown was fixed and the letters game was just a way of transmitting encoded messages to deep cover agents?
|
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Feb 4, 2023 11:28:54 GMT
Maybe Countdown was fixed and the letters game was just a way of transmitting encoded messages to deep cover agents? Or the numbers were a TV version of those radio stations. A good job the Lincolnshire Poacher wasn't the theme music, the conspiracy theorists would have gone wild.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,636
|
Post by john07 on Feb 4, 2023 23:47:35 GMT
Please don't bring facts up. Carlton didn't like Whiteley, therefore he worked for the BBC. It really doesn't matter does it? He was the sort of affable middle class non-entity that I associate with the BBC more than other stations; and I thought 'Countdown' was probably a BBC programme. It wasn't! He wasn't! Who cares? I certainly don't. Good Attitude, never let the facts get in the way of personal prejudice.
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Feb 5, 2023 0:26:16 GMT
It really doesn't matter does it? He was the sort of affable middle class non-entity that I associate with the BBC more than other stations; and I thought 'Countdown' was probably a BBC programme. It wasn't! He wasn't! Who cares? I certainly don't. Good Attitude, never let the facts get in the way of personal prejudice. I deny no facts. I have no prejudice against him or the BBC. I made assumptions. I was wrong. It doesn't matter. I don't care.
|
|
J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,722
|
Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 5, 2023 5:05:36 GMT
It really doesn't matter does it? He was the sort of affable middle class non-entity that I associate with the BBC more than other stations; and I thought 'Countdown' was probably a BBC programme. It wasn't! He wasn't! Who cares? I certainly don't. Good Attitude, never let the facts get in the way of personal prejudice. Growing up in Sheffield we all knew it was Calendar Countdown.
|
|
Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,824
|
Post by Harry Hayfield on Feb 5, 2023 8:13:29 GMT
|
|
|
Post by batman on Feb 5, 2023 10:21:18 GMT
whether rightly or wrongly, this will not cause Mr Djanogly to vacate his seat, certainly not during the remainder of this parliament.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,804
|
Post by The Bishop on Feb 5, 2023 11:08:13 GMT
If simply "Tory MP does ethically questionable thing" was enough to cause a byelection, we would currently be snowed under with them.
(might even get a change of government out of it!)
|
|
|
Post by eastmidlandsright on Feb 6, 2023 1:03:13 GMT
If simply "Tory MP does ethically questionable thing" was enough to cause a byelection, we would currently be snowed under with them. True, but I think all but the most partisan would agree that the word "Tory" could be removed from that sentence and it would still hold true.
|
|
Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,782
|
Post by Sandy on Feb 6, 2023 12:10:22 GMT
Not only was Richard Whiteley a Conservative voter, he was also an active Party member who regularly attended Party Conference in a personal capacity. He was in the Grand Hotel on the night of the Brighton Bombing and I remember seeing him propping up the hotel bar at the 2003 Party Conference. Whatever one thought of his politics, he went too soon and is much missed by many. Ricky Tomlinson claimed he was a member of MI-5. Ricky Tomlinson is my favourite commie.
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Feb 6, 2023 12:13:18 GMT
Ricky Tomlinson claimed he was a member of MI-5. Ricky Tomlinson is my favourite commie. Favourite commie, my arse!
|
|
iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,556
|
Post by iang on Feb 6, 2023 13:05:21 GMT
Ricky Tomlinson claimed he was a member of MI-5. Ricky Tomlinson is my favourite commie. And at one point in his life, he could have been someone's favourite Nazi
|
|
Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,782
|
Post by Sandy on Feb 6, 2023 13:26:25 GMT
Ricky Tomlinson is my favourite commie. And at one point in his life, he could have been someone's favourite Nazi He was a member of the NF for less than a year when he was a teenager 30 year old. Some Lib Dems on this site are thrice twice that age and haven’t grown out of their silly phase.
|
|
|
Post by aargauer on Feb 6, 2023 14:54:12 GMT
And at one point in his life, he could have been someone's favourite Nazi He was a member of the NF for less than a year when he was a teenager. Some Lib Dems on this site are thrice that age and haven’t grown out of their silly phase. He was about 30 at the time...
|
|
Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,782
|
Post by Sandy on Feb 6, 2023 15:33:15 GMT
He was a member of the NF for less than a year when he was a teenager. Some Lib Dems on this site are thrice that age and haven’t grown out of their silly phase. He was about 30 at the time... Damnit, should have checked my sources more carefully. Updated accordingly.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,804
|
Post by The Bishop on Feb 7, 2023 11:11:04 GMT
Yes, though the fact remains he was only a member for a short time - and to his credit was commendably open and honest about all this in his autobiography.
|
|
|
Post by oldhamexile on Feb 9, 2023 8:20:27 GMT
I once got told that Paul Foot had security connections but I imagine they weren't voluntary, or that he knew them because he'd worked out who they really were, or it was people like Clive Ponting. However, when I started at my current employer, a much older colleague who was dealing with strikes in the late 70s and 80s told me that a fair number of well known journalists, TV people etc were, if not actual MI5 agents, informants of a sort. Including (allegedly) a number of those who you wouldn't think of. Presumably this was mainly journalists telling a friend (whose job was a bit vague) they regularly saw at dinner parties when the next SOGAT walk out was planned for or whatever, and also a number were people like Whiteley with known sympathies who could be relied upon to make a documentary that might influence a jury. And a few were no doubt people with obvious security connections who shared information intentionally without actually being a regular asset: not specifically naming them but people like Peter Jay and Joe Haines might very well fall into that category. So nothing beyond what you would expect. But the thought that someone like Polly Toynbee was actually a deep cover MI5 asset is delicious. It wasn't MI5 in most such cases, but rather the official propaganda outfit IRD (Information Research Department), which technically came under the Foreign Office but had close connections to the security and intelligence services. IRD was certainly involved in the programme that Tomlinson was talking about. That's not a conspiracy theory: it's discussed in a Downing St file released to the National Archives in 2013 with the catalogue reference PREM 15/2011. The file dates from the final weeks of the Heath Government. I attach a couple of pages that give a pretty clear idea of the official involvement in that programme.
Funny you should mention Polly Toynbee, since her father Philip Toynbee was of course a very well-known communist and a good friend of the Cambridge spy Donald Maclean, so he features quite a lot in MI5 files on Maclean et al.
|
|
|
Post by richardh on Feb 9, 2023 9:27:11 GMT
Not only was Richard Whiteley a Conservative voter, he was also an active Party member who regularly attended Party Conference in a personal capacity. He was in the Grand Hotel on the night of the Brighton Bombing and I remember seeing him propping up the hotel bar at the 2003 Party Conference. Whatever one thought of his politics, he went too soon and is much missed by many. Just because he propped up the bar at Tory conferences, where he was sent by YTV, doesn't make him a member of the Conservatives or voter for them. He also attended Labour and Liberal conferences. He used to regularly have a prominent Pudsey Conservative member Philip Simms from Horsforth on his live political programmes. He once said to Simms on TV: "Mr Simms. you are an extremely pompous Conservative..." when he meant to say prominent.. Simms took it in good grace and said: "Yes, I am." I remember Philip Simms and can only agree: he was.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,804
|
Post by The Bishop on Feb 9, 2023 11:19:02 GMT
I think the general agreement that he was an instinctive Tory comes from a bit more than that tbf.
|
|