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Post by pragmaticidealist on Oct 7, 2020 10:00:02 GMT
Somehow, I doubt that Labour will. Bradford has ensured that Labour will never be complacent again in a parliamentary by-election involving George Galloway. Not that he'd have much of a hope in this seat even if they did.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Oct 7, 2020 10:16:31 GMT
Except a byelection. There is a possibility that they could lose that. Though, even if that were to happen, I agree that the long term consequences are minimal. Frankly, if they can get away with the Finance Minister and the man they were pushing to be the next FM being exposed for grooming a teenager, they can get away with pretty much anything. I see Gorgeous George fancies giving it a go. Do you think Douglas Ross will agree to the Conservatives standing aside to give him a free run at the SNP? www.scotsman.com/news/politics/george-galloway-ready-contest-margaret-ferriers-seat-if-election-called-2994286That's not what he is saying. He is saying SCon and SLD should stand down in favour of SLab. If not, he will stand.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Oct 7, 2020 10:17:04 GMT
Somehow, I doubt that Labour will. Bradford has ensured that Labour will never be complacent again in a parliamentary by-election involving George Galloway. Not that he'd have much of a hope in this seat even if they did. He's at his most dangerous when there is a high proportion of muslims for him to do his rabble-rousing act for. I suspect that this won't be true here. And he picked the wrong West Bromwich seat in the GE - West has a lot more muslims than East, where the south Asian population is largely sikh and hindu, groups who would tend to be repelled by his campaigning stances.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 7, 2020 10:20:33 GMT
Voters don't generally get impressed by carpetbagging candidates who turn up somewhere so they can target the sitting MP. Especially not when the sitting MP then retires. Look at Esther Rantzen's challenge in Luton South in 2010 for another example.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 7, 2020 11:04:05 GMT
That she still stood there despite her "target" retiring showed amazing levels of delusion.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 7, 2020 11:10:03 GMT
That she still stood there despite her "target" retiring showed amazing levels of delusion. Although in a pre-election interview in The Gruniad she admitted she had no chance once Moran departed, and an ex-member of Luton South who’s ventured in to North Staffordshire says she was unofficially campaigning for Shuker at the end.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 7, 2020 11:21:24 GMT
So what was the point exactly?
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 7, 2020 11:42:58 GMT
So what was the point exactly? Officially she entered to run against Moran, was a bit suspicious that a Party hack would be parachuted in to replace her, warmed to Shuker personally, but having built up a large-ish team of volunteers felt withdrawing was letting them down, so ended up just going through the motions.
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Post by southernliberal on Oct 7, 2020 11:56:20 GMT
From this morning's Politico Playbook:
TANKS ON THE LAWN: Keir Starmer will host his “Call Keir” series of virtual public meetings at 4 p.m. in … Rutherglen and Hamilton West, the seat of disgraced SNP MP Margaret Ferrier. Yesterday it emerged Ferrier went to church while showing symptoms. Starmer says: “After admitting to multiple serious breaches of the coronavirus regulations, it beggars belief that Margaret Ferrier thinks it is appropriate to continue as an MP. This is a gross error of judgment. I want to speak directly to local residents about this scandal, to those locally who are feeing angry and frustrated about the situation.” Playbook respects his game.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 7, 2020 12:30:43 GMT
Bradford has ensured that Labour will never be complacent again in a parliamentary by-election involving George Galloway. Not that he'd have much of a hope in this seat even if they did. He's at his most dangerous when there is a high proportion of muslims for him to do his rabble-rousing act for. I suspect that this won't be true here. And he picked the wrong West Bromwich seat in the GE - West has a lot more muslims than East, where the south Asian population is largely sikh and hindu, groups who would tend to be repelled by his campaigning stances. Obviously, in a country that's almost entirely white, that's true. However, it ain't the whole story. He has appeal in Scotland based on being a former Glasgow MP with proper socialist credentials. He's Dundonian and sounds a lot, but not completely, like it (us), which gives more, err, oomph, behind his firebrand working class socialism. He also represents a kind of working class unionism that hates the idea of a break up of the UK, but supportive of Irish unification. That tradition still persists on the West Coast, despite the fact that many have bought into the Indy Orangist scare stories. I don't think he'd win, but it's foolish to pretend he doesn't have an appeal as so many England based folk are.
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MacShimidh
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Post by MacShimidh on Oct 7, 2020 12:55:17 GMT
He's at his most dangerous when there is a high proportion of muslims for him to do his rabble-rousing act for. I suspect that this won't be true here. And he picked the wrong West Bromwich seat in the GE - West has a lot more muslims than East, where the south Asian population is largely sikh and hindu, groups who would tend to be repelled by his campaigning stances. Obviously, in a country that's almost entirely white, that's true. However, it ain't the whole story. He has appeal in Scotland based on being a former Glasgow MP with proper socialist credentials. He's Dundonian and sounds a lot, but not completely, like it (us), which gives more, err, oomph, behind his firebrand working class socialism. He also represents a kind of working class unionism that hates the idea of a break up of the UK, but supportive of Irish unification. That tradition still persists on the West Coast, despite the fact that many have bought into the Indy Orangist scare stories. I don't think he'd win, but it's foolish to pretend he doesn't have an appeal as so many England based folk are. I know that in Glaswegian Labour circles he is widely seen as a chancer who abandoned the city for his own vanity. I really don’t think he has any appeal in this part of the country any more. The last time he stood on the regional list in Glasgow he got 3% and I don’t think standing as a single-issue unionist will markedly improve that.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 7, 2020 13:08:06 GMT
All things being considered, and assuming there's some ridiculous no hope lists made up of the usuals, what would he need in Glasgow to get elected, assuming he headed Alliance for Unity there?
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European Lefty
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Post by European Lefty on Oct 7, 2020 16:17:30 GMT
All things being considered, and assuming there's some ridiculous no hope lists made up of the usuals, what would he need in Glasgow to get elected, assuming he headed Alliance for Unity there? A miracle
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 7, 2020 16:49:51 GMT
All things being considered, and assuming there's some ridiculous no hope lists made up of the usuals, what would he need in Glasgow to get elected, assuming he headed Alliance for Unity there? A miracle Well, he would doubtless drop the double-game of "is he/isn't he a Muslim?" - if one pays close attention, he still sees himself as a Catholic, although in somewhat impaired communion what with his marriage situation(s). Indeed, the morning after his victory in Bradford West, he countered the accusation that he was playing to the Muslim Asian community by replying that he was a "blue-eyed Catholic boy". It is most obvious whenever he comes up against a Scots Orange point of view and he very much belongs to the tradition that sees Labour as the party of the Irish Catholic electorate (though that broke in 2017). He could feasibly be elected on a list if he got himself on enough TV programmes and lamped around at the SNP government with the fairly impressive skills that he has. His problem is that he keeps inventing party vehicles for himself and "Alliance for Unity" is really just his little Workers' Party of Britain and a lot of not that well known individuals. With cracks showing in the SNP and the lack of a strong lead by Richard Leonard for Scottish Labour, he is positioning himself to appeal to protest voters.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 7, 2020 17:28:19 GMT
Well, he would doubtless drop the double-game of "is he/isn't he a Muslim?" - if one pays close attention, he still sees himself as a Catholic, although in somewhat impaired communion what with his marriage situation(s). Indeed, the morning after his victory in Bradford West, he countered the accusation that he was playing to the Muslim Asian community by replying that he was a "blue-eyed Catholic boy". It is most obvious whenever he comes up against a Scots Orange point of view and he very much belongs to the tradition that sees Labour as the party of the Irish Catholic electorate (though that broke in 2017). He could feasibly be elected on a list if he got himself on enough TV programmes and lamped around at the SNP government with the fairly impressive skills that he has. His problem is that he keeps inventing party vehicles for himself and "Alliance for Unity" is really just his little Workers' Party of Britain and a lot of not that well known individuals. With cracks showing in the SNP and the lack of a strong lead by Richard Leonard for Scottish Labour, he is positioning himself to appeal to protest voters. There's definitely a market for Unionist protest voters, and the same for Nationalist ones (hence the talk of Eck setting up his own list only outfit). I wonder if, long term, we might see the main parties being largely constituency based with specific, list only groups making up the rest. This is unlikely I admit.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 7, 2020 17:40:07 GMT
Well, he would doubtless drop the double-game of "is he/isn't he a Muslim?" - if one pays close attention, he still sees himself as a Catholic, although in somewhat impaired communion what with his marriage situation(s). Indeed, the morning after his victory in Bradford West, he countered the accusation that he was playing to the Muslim Asian community by replying that he was a "blue-eyed Catholic boy". It is most obvious whenever he comes up against a Scots Orange point of view and he very much belongs to the tradition that sees Labour as the party of the Irish Catholic electorate (though that broke in 2017). He could feasibly be elected on a list if he got himself on enough TV programmes and lamped around at the SNP government with the fairly impressive skills that he has. His problem is that he keeps inventing party vehicles for himself and "Alliance for Unity" is really just his little Workers' Party of Britain and a lot of not that well known individuals. With cracks showing in the SNP and the lack of a strong lead by Richard Leonard for Scottish Labour, he is positioning himself to appeal to protest voters. There's definitely a market for Unionist protest voters, and the same for Nationalist ones (hence the talk of Eck setting up his own list only outfit). I wonder if, long term, we might see the main parties being largely constituency based with specific, list only groups making up the rest. This is unlikely I admit. Cast your mind back to 2003 and the regional lists provided Tommy Sheridan's Scottish Socialists with seats, the Scottish Senior Citizens with 1 seat, Stave Stobhill Hospital had 1 and Margo MacDInald retained her seat as an Independent. Not to mention the 7 Greens MSPs. The SNP swept them all away in 2007.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Oct 7, 2020 17:47:54 GMT
Well, he would doubtless drop the double-game of "is he/isn't he a Muslim?" - if one pays close attention, he still sees himself as a Catholic, although in somewhat impaired communion what with his marriage situation(s). Indeed, the morning after his victory in Bradford West, he countered the accusation that he was playing to the Muslim Asian community by replying that he was a "blue-eyed Catholic boy". It is most obvious whenever he comes up against a Scots Orange point of view and he very much belongs to the tradition that sees Labour as the party of the Irish Catholic electorate (though that broke in 2017). He could feasibly be elected on a list if he got himself on enough TV programmes and lamped around at the SNP government with the fairly impressive skills that he has. His problem is that he keeps inventing party vehicles for himself and "Alliance for Unity" is really just his little Workers' Party of Britain and a lot of not that well known individuals. With cracks showing in the SNP and the lack of a strong lead by Richard Leonard for Scottish Labour, he is positioning himself to appeal to protest voters. Three islamic marriages do cause one to question his religious affiliation though. And he prefers to be rather coy about it these days. It seems possible to me that he's holding back on announcing his conversion to islam until after his mother dies, what with her being Irish catholic and all that.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 7, 2020 18:13:08 GMT
Well, he would doubtless drop the double-game of "is he/isn't he a Muslim?" - if one pays close attention, he still sees himself as a Catholic, although in somewhat impaired communion what with his marriage situation(s). Indeed, the morning after his victory in Bradford West, he countered the accusation that he was playing to the Muslim Asian community by replying that he was a "blue-eyed Catholic boy". It is most obvious whenever he comes up against a Scots Orange point of view and he very much belongs to the tradition that sees Labour as the party of the Irish Catholic electorate (though that broke in 2017). He could feasibly be elected on a list if he got himself on enough TV programmes and lamped around at the SNP government with the fairly impressive skills that he has. His problem is that he keeps inventing party vehicles for himself and "Alliance for Unity" is really just his little Workers' Party of Britain and a lot of not that well known individuals. With cracks showing in the SNP and the lack of a strong lead by Richard Leonard for Scottish Labour, he is positioning himself to appeal to protest voters. Three islamic marriages do cause one to question his religious affiliation though. And he prefers to be rather coy about it these days. It seems possible to me that he's holding back on announcing his conversion to islam until after his mother dies, what with her being Irish catholic and all that. Possible, but he has been filmed referring to "your faith/religion" at meetings in mosques, has reiterated his support for statements he has made in the past in reference to his belief in Jesus Christ as understood from a Christian perspective, and his marriages have been to people whose traditions are open to marrying non-Muslims. He is a clever one with words, but I feel that it is a big leap for him as his Catholic faith was an intellectual as well as emotional/cultural one. Time will tell.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 7, 2020 18:31:02 GMT
There's definitely a market for Unionist protest voters, and the same for Nationalist ones (hence the talk of Eck setting up his own list only outfit). I wonder if, long term, we might see the main parties being largely constituency based with specific, list only groups making up the rest. This is unlikely I admit. Cast your mind back to 2003 and the regional lists provided Tommy Sheridan's Scottish Socialists with seats, the Scottish Senior Citizens with 1 seat, Stave Stobhill Hospital had 1 and Margo MacDInald retained her seat as an Independent. Not to mention the 7 Greens MSPs. The SNP swept them all away in 2007. That's what prompted my thoughts- I wonder if it's settled down now? Obviously this is the sort of thing that would take several cycles to come through and may only emerge if and when Scotland becomes independent: the legacy parties forming constant coalitions with separate list parties.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 7, 2020 18:37:06 GMT
Cast your mind back to 2003 and the regional lists provided Tommy Sheridan's Scottish Socialists with seats, the Scottish Senior Citizens with 1 seat, Stave Stobhill Hospital had 1 and Margo MacDInald retained her seat as an Independent. Not to mention the 7 Greens MSPs. The SNP swept them all away in 2007. That's what prompted my thoughts- I wonder if it's settled down now? Obviously this is the sort of thing that would take several cycles to come through and may only emerge if and when Scotland becomes independent: the legacy parties forming constant coalitions with separate list parties. To some degree, this only died down due to Alex Salmond pushing people to give both votes to the SNP. The Greens are very much seen as a client party of the SNP now. I think that the next election might be interesting in term of the lists.
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