jamesg
Forum Regular
Posts: 253 
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Post by jamesg on Aug 27, 2021 17:14:44 GMT
Revelations of the John Major - Edwina Currie affair didn't come out until long after Major had left office. They brought about mockery and allegations of hypocrisy.
However, what if they had emerged, with evidence to support them, during the 90s when Major's government was marred by sleaze? Is it possible that the revelation could have brought down his government?
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Aug 27, 2021 18:51:00 GMT
The really interesting version goes, what if allies of John Redwood had found out and provided it to the News of the World to run on Sunday July 2nd, 1995? I suspect Redwood would still have lost though. Too many Wets in the Parliamentary Conservative Party.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 27, 2021 18:53:47 GMT
The really interesting version goes, what if allies of John Redwood had found out and provided it to the News of the World to run on Sunday July 2nd, 1995? I suspect Redwood would still have lost though. Too many Wets in the Parliamentary Conservative Party. Redwood was a gentleman and would never have done such a thing. |
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Post by greenchristian on Aug 31, 2021 17:53:53 GMT
The really interesting version goes, what if allies of John Redwood had found out and provided it to the News of the World to run on Sunday July 2nd, 1995? I suspect Redwood would still have lost though. Too many Wets in the Parliamentary Conservative Party. Redwood was a gentleman and would never have done such a thing. The scenario was allies of Redwood, not Redwood himself. |
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Post by yellowperil on Aug 31, 2021 18:08:56 GMT
Redwood was a gentleman and would never have done such a thing. The scenario was allies of Redwood, not Redwood himself. Well quite, gentlemen always have allies to do the things it would be beneath them to have to touch. |
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Post by pericles on Sept 2, 2021 4:00:38 GMT
Major said later that he would have resigned if he didn't get at least 215 votes, and he got 218, so the possibility of a leadership change in 1995 is surprisingly realistic.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 2, 2021 12:48:38 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him.
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Post by hullenedge on Sept 2, 2021 12:59:28 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him. No might, more definite. He'd have been a laughing stock if the affair had been revealed at that time. The press were hardly favourable so would have gone for the jugular. The opposition would be brutal in the HoC. Gone within 48 hours. |
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DrW
Conservative
Posts: 578
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Post by DrW on Sept 2, 2021 21:49:02 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him. And if he had been forced to step down, would his replacement (presumably Heseltine or Portillo) have done any better at the next general election? Clearly the Tories would not have won but they might have reduced the scale of the landslide. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Sept 3, 2021 4:58:57 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him. And if he had been forced to step down, would his replacement (presumably Heseltine or Portillo) have done any better at the next general election? Clearly the Tories would not have won but they might have reduced the scale of the landslide. Might Portillo have kept his seat? Meaning no railway programmes? |
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Post by matureleft on Sept 3, 2021 8:38:33 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him. I would add, from my own knowledge, that the revelation that the other party was Currie would have done him further harm. She attracted startling antipathy, particularly among the more eurosceptic Tories (as she was strongly pro-EU at that time) but wider for what I always presumed were sexist (loud, assertive woman) and, I'm afraid, anti-semitic reasons. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 3, 2021 8:51:46 GMT
I think parallels can be drawn between Currie and another former Conservative minister, Leslie Hore-Belisha. Both were energetic reformers with high public profiles whose lack of deference to traditions annoyed the establishment. Probably their Jewishness added to their unpopularity.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 3, 2021 9:39:36 GMT
The thing to remember here is that Major (somewhat to his subsequent regret) set the whole thing rolling with his 1993 conference "back to basics" speech - which was within a matter of hours being spun as "rolling back the pernicious legacy of the permissive 1960s" and by some right wingers even more crudely as a war on single mums and similar "immoral" types. In that context, his being revealed as having a long standing affair (with a prominent fellow Tory to boot) might well not have been survivable for him. And if he had been forced to step down, would his replacement (presumably Heseltine or Portillo) have done any better at the next general election? Clearly the Tories would not have won but they might have reduced the scale of the landslide. Hezza might well have made the defeat less bad, though it shouldn't be forgotten a section of the Tory right utterly despised him and would have been out for him from the off. But......Portillo? There's a reason why that "quickie" book about the 1997 GE was called what it was. Back then, he was genuinely loathed. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 3, 2021 9:56:03 GMT
At the time of the 1997 election my boss was Chairman of Enfield Southgate Conservative Association. They certainly didn't think the seat was under threat at the start of the campaign.
('Were you still up for Portillo?' by Brian Cathcart)
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Post by hullenedge on Sept 3, 2021 10:06:12 GMT
And if he had been forced to step down, would his replacement (presumably Heseltine or Portillo) have done any better at the next general election? Clearly the Tories would not have won but they might have reduced the scale of the landslide. Hezza might well have made the defeat less bad, though it shouldn't be forgotten a section of the Tory right utterly despised him and would have been out for him from the off. But......Portillo? There's a reason why that "quickie" book about the 1997 GE was called what it was. Back then, he was genuinely loathed. Douglas Hurd or Malcolm Rifkind could have emerged as PM. |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,447
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 3, 2021 10:12:59 GMT
Hezza might well have made the defeat less bad, though it shouldn't be forgotten a section of the Tory right utterly despised him and would have been out for him from the off. But......Portillo? There's a reason why that "quickie" book about the 1997 GE was called what it was. Back then, he was genuinely loathed. Douglas Hurd or Malcolm Rifkind could have emerged as PM. Another 2 men it was hard to get worked up about for me(in terms of disliking/loathing them-same with Major). |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,447
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 3, 2021 10:13:33 GMT
At the time of the 1997 election my boss was Chairman of Enfield Southgate Conservative Association. They certainly didn't think the seat was under threat at the start of the campaign. ('Were you still up for Portillo?' by Brian Cathcart)Enjoyable book  |
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Post by hullenedge on Sept 3, 2021 10:16:55 GMT
Douglas Hurd or Malcolm Rifkind could have emerged as PM. Another 2 men it was hard to get worked up about for me(in terms of disliking/loathing them-same with Major). Safe choices. Centre of the party etc. May have limited the anti-Tory tactical voting in 1997. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 3, 2021 10:28:08 GMT
I would quite possibly have voted Labour in 1997 had Heseltine been Conservative leader
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,447
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 3, 2021 10:58:55 GMT
Another 2 men it was hard to get worked up about for me(in terms of disliking/loathing them-same with Major). Safe choices. Centre of the party etc. May have limited the anti-Tory tactical voting in 1997. But were the voters targeting the party rather than the leader, so might it not have made as much difference? |
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