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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 9, 2016 4:18:43 GMT
The idea of a European Army looks far more attractive than before - or, at least, a NATO without Trump's America. You are joking right? Have you seen how most of their forces operate. Though I do respect the German and French forces. Exactly. We'll need to improve. We can't rely on the USA anymore, nor should we fight alongside Trump's USA out of principle. I accept that we may have to deal with unsavoury partners aboard, but I would be uncomfortable having them in NATO.
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cj
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Post by cj on Nov 9, 2016 4:21:02 GMT
I don't think any country outside the BRIC's has the economic base to have a 50s/60s experience its downhill all the way, unless of course we get total war The USA does, as do many other Western countries who might end up in the grip of the far right. There are some (relatively) well-to-do African and Asian countries which could be reduced to absolute poverty (especially if they're used for proxy wars) but the levels of it could be significantly worse than those seen in the time of the USSR. True, you can always turn a juggernaut, it just takes time. Unfortunatly the well being of well-to-do African and Asian countries and the countless millions that live within them do not enter into it. However I really can't see the US turning their 'naught alone you would need help from phalangist/oborigionalist movementsacross the declining "west" to disrupt economic golobalism to make a difference
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 9, 2016 4:23:36 GMT
The USA does, as do many other Western countries who might end up in the grip of the far right. There are some (relatively) well-to-do African and Asian countries which could be reduced to absolute poverty (especially if they're used for proxy wars) but the levels of it could be significantly worse than those seen in the time of the USSR. True, you can always turn a juggernaut, it just takes time. Unfortunatly the well being of well-to-do African and Asian countries and the countless millions that live within them do not enter into it. However I really can't see the US turning their 'naught alone you would need help from phalangist/oborigionalist movementsacross the declining "west" to disrupt economic golobalism to make a difference I agree that they're unlikely to manage it alone, hence I mentioned earlier that if the far right continued to rise across the west, it might happen. Orban, Le Pen, Wilders, etc...if they pull off future 'Brexit Mark II's then we will have a Cold War on the horizon. Eastern partners may cooperate. Modi springs to mind, as one of many other anti-globalist, illiberal leaders.
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 9, 2016 4:26:47 GMT
She still has a realistic, albeit unlikely, path to victory if she wins Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. She can achieve a tie if she loses Wisconsin, too, although this would probably translate into a Trump presidency (not that a Clinton presidency would be impossible). Even if she somehow pulls out a win in Mishigan (which is extremely unlikely within the context of the massive swings Trump has pulled in the area) it's still very unlikely that Clinton will win: Trump can win with Nevada and Wisconsin. I agree, but Trump's path looked very thin only a few hours ago, and the night could hold a few surprises for us yet. It is indeed unlikely, but not entirely improbable.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 9, 2016 4:26:53 GMT
By my count, there's a non-negligible shot at an electoral college tie. Assume that Clinton takes PA, MI, MN, WA, NH and NV, but that Trump wins all the other uncalled BBC states. That gives you a 269-269 tie, unless Trump can take ME-2. It's hard to know which of those would be most chaotic. The Democrats really need Wisconsin.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 9, 2016 4:31:08 GMT
By my count, there's a non-negligible shot at an electoral college tie. Assume that Clinton takes PA, MI, MN, WA, NH and NV, but that Trump wins all the other uncalled BBC states. That gives you a 269-269 tie, unless Trump can take ME-2. It's hard to know which of those would be most chaotic. The Democrats really need Wisconsin. Apparently HIlary has taken Nebraska 2 so the GOP will need to take Maine 2 for your scenario
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
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Post by cj on Nov 9, 2016 4:32:24 GMT
Well I suppose this forces us to spend more on defence at least. And just how do you suppose we'll find the money for that? From the usual suspects, the poorest
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 9, 2016 4:33:07 GMT
So, if Trump wins, the US authority round the world will be gone. The consequences of the vote cannot be underestimated.
I wonder what history will say about 2016...?
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 9, 2016 4:36:45 GMT
When Hillary decided to make her "deplorables" speech, why the hell didn't one of her advisors tell her to change it beforehand?
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 9, 2016 4:37:48 GMT
Florida called for Trump and better than last time. That my friends is Game...Set.....An Match.
It is President Trump, a Republican Senate, a Republican House, A Republican Supreme Court, a friend to Britain and a détente with Russia.
Good night's work.
Iowa called for trump.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 9, 2016 4:39:10 GMT
Fox calls Wisconsin for Trump. Nobody else has yet, but it's probably a reasonably safe call at this point.
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 9, 2016 4:39:20 GMT
When Hillary decided to make her "deplorables" speech, why the hell didn't one of her advisors tell her to change it beforehand? It was a strategic failure to make that speech, but they are still deplorable. Their candidate having won the electoral college doesn't change that. This is only small comfort, but she's still on course to win the national vote.
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Post by casualobserver on Nov 9, 2016 4:40:44 GMT
I hope you're right, Carlton. But Trump needs either WI or PA or MI and PI looks v unlikely and MI looks unlikely
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Post by casualobserver on Nov 9, 2016 4:42:02 GMT
If WI goes to Trump the it's probably curtains for Clinton
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 9, 2016 4:46:20 GMT
BBC have gone into full-on mourning mode - no pretence at dispassionate reporting
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Post by greenchristian on Nov 9, 2016 4:48:15 GMT
BBC have gone into full-on mourning mode - no pretence at dispassionate reporting Given that almost nobody in the UK was taken in by Trump, that's hardly a surprising editorial line to take.
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Post by casualobserver on Nov 9, 2016 4:53:49 GMT
WI not yet called by CNN, who are decrying Clinton's failure to visit the state
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
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Post by cj on Nov 9, 2016 4:54:17 GMT
Given that almost nobody in the UK was taken in by Trump, that's hardly a surprising editorial line to take. They are still supposed to be impartial. In non-domestic politics? If Satan errupted from the pit to bring forth the end of days would you expect his spokesbeing on Breakfast?
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 9, 2016 4:56:11 GMT
They are still supposed to be impartial. In non-domestice politics? If satan errupted from the pit to bring forth the end of days would you expect his spokesbeing on Breakfast? ^This. I doubt many people on this forum, especially Conservative members, would be amongst those supporting the BBC when they ran their interview with Anjem Choudary, even though they made it very clear they utterly abhorred his politics. There's being neutral when it comes to a domestic, economic left/right divide, and then there's recognising a horrible human being for what he is.
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 9, 2016 4:57:01 GMT
If WI goes to Trump the it's probably curtains for Clinton I wonder if it's just a coincidence that Trump's family was originally from Germany and Wisconsin is the state with the largest percentage of people with German ancestry.
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