Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
|
Post by Richard Allen on Jun 30, 2021 14:28:36 GMT
If the rules of the power-sharing agreement allowed MLAs to change their designation in such a way, it was a valid use of the rules, and therefore not a "violation". I think Richard clearly meant it was a violation of the spirit of the power sharing rules/arrangements even if it was within the rules Indeed, I though that was quite clearly what I meant when I said the principles of power sharing. Now personally I am totally opposed to both the GFA and the way Stormont operates but those who claim to support power sharing have a tendency to ignore its most basic principles when it suits them. Many of those same people would be outraged if SF/IRA objections were defeated by Alliance MLAs designating themselves as Nationalists. |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366 
|
Post by stb12 on Jun 30, 2021 14:54:34 GMT
I think Richard clearly meant it was a violation of the spirit of the power sharing rules/arrangements even if it was within the rules Indeed, I though that was quite clearly what I meant when I said the principles of power sharing. Now personally I am totally opposed to both the GFA and the way Stormont operates but those who claim to support power sharing have a tendency to ignore its most basic principles when it suits them. Many of those same people would be outraged if SF/IRA objections were defeated by Alliance MLAs designating themselves as Nationalists. The wailing about a potential SF first minister from some unionists is hard to take seriously as well because the devolution settlement obviously left that as a possibility and it’s a joint office a far as power is concerned anyway |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
|
Post by Khunanup on Jul 2, 2021 23:20:27 GMT
Alliance Party MLAs did designate as Unionists to solve a political crisis in November 2001. Trimble had resigned as the IRA wouldn't make any progress on disarmament, but after a positive move sought to return to office. Owing to defections he didn't have a majority of Unionist votes. So David Ford, Eileen Bell and Séan Neeson redesignated as Unionists and that gave him a majority. They did, but that was a result of the more perverse sops to the extremes on both sides of sectarianism in the GFA. I believe that procedures were changed as a result of the farce so that such a course of action would never arise again. |
|
|
|
Post by michael2019 on Jul 3, 2021 5:30:03 GMT
Alliance Party MLAs did designate as Unionists to solve a political crisis in November 2001. Trimble had resigned as the IRA wouldn't make any progress on disarmament, but after a positive move sought to return to office. Owing to defections he didn't have a majority of Unionist votes. So David Ford, Eileen Bell and Séan Neeson redesignated as Unionists and that gave him a majority. They did, but that was a result of the more perverse sops to the extremes on both sides of sectarianism in the GFA. I believe that procedures were changed as a result of the farce so that such a course of action would never arise again. From the NI Assembly website: "Members cannot change their designation unless they change political party." I guess that doesn't absolutely preclude the setting up of a new political party - say APNI2 for MLAs to do something like that. education.niassembly.gov.uk/post_16/snapshots_of_devolution/st_andrews/assembly_executive |
|
|
|
Post by seanryanj on Jul 3, 2021 17:44:47 GMT
I note alliance are out knocking on doors every weekend when or if it opens could be interesting!
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,712
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 3, 2021 19:26:17 GMT
I note alliance are out knocking on doors every weekend when or if it opens could be interesting! I bet they are targeting the nationalist areas quite strongly. |
|
Toylyyev
Mebyon Kernow
CJ Fox avatar
Posts: 1,067
|
Post by Toylyyev on Jul 3, 2021 20:23:37 GMT
I note alliance are out knocking on doors every weekend when or if it opens could be interesting! I bet they are targeting the nationist areas quite strongly. No way not to like that epiphany. eric.ed.gov/?id=ED055470Answer to the Jura question for another day. |
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,712
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 3, 2021 20:26:58 GMT
I bet they are targeting the nationist areas quite strongly. No way not to like that epiphany. eric.ed.gov/?id=ED055470Answer to the Jura question for another day.Bloody autocorrect. |
|
|
|
Post by carolus on Jan 15, 2022 12:11:35 GMT
Govt is proposing a very specific and limited amendment to allow dual mandates until the next general election. I wonder why...
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Jan 15, 2022 14:38:02 GMT
Govt is proposing a very specific and limited amendment to allow dual mandates until the next general election. I wonder why...
From other things I have read it looks like if the Lords vote this down it does not go back to the Commons. |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366
|
Post by stb12 on Jan 15, 2022 14:41:31 GMT
I’m not a fan of dual mandates but them actually being banned by legislation is daft. Ultimately if it bothers the electorate that much they can decline to vote them in on the second mandate
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Jan 15, 2022 16:59:00 GMT
I’m not a fan of dual mandates but them actually being banned by legislation is daft. Ultimately if it bothers the electorate that much they can decline to vote them in on the second mandate Yes, but changing the rules "temporarily" to so obviously benefit your side does smack so much of the Owen Paterson business. With luck the Lords will chuck it out. Of course denying the Voteuk forum a by-election is also a heinous offence! |
|
|
|
Post by seanryanj on Jan 16, 2022 0:02:59 GMT
I’m not a fan of dual mandates but them actually being banned by legislation is daft. Ultimately if it bothers the electorate that much they can decline to vote them in on the second mandate One worry that I have, asembly has so much chopping and changing at moment you could have MPs running and winning and then resigning within a short time handing seats to unelected people. This is especially murky and very pro DUP not a shock from this tory government. It must also show how rattled Donaldson is, If the DUP is anyway worried about holding LV in a by-election it says alot about their jitters. |
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Jan 16, 2022 0:43:09 GMT
Might there be a benefit to Sinn Fein from this? I can't really see an angle but they seem to chop and change people all the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by seanryanj on Jan 16, 2022 1:40:00 GMT
Might there be a benefit to Sinn Fein from this? I can't really see an angle but they seem to chop and change people all the time. You could see SF MPs opting to run for assembly, It has to be frustrating for them to just be sitting outside of everything. SDLP and Alliance are not going to let MPs run altough SDLP should have waited it might have brought in extra MLAs in Foyle & SB.... play the game. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Jan 16, 2022 20:57:24 GMT
Might there be a benefit to Sinn Fein from this? I can't really see an angle but they seem to chop and change people all the time. You could see SF MPs opting to run for assembly, It has to be frustrating for them to just be sitting outside of everything. SDLP and Alliance are not going to let MPs run altough SDLP should have waited it might have brought in extra MLAs in Foyle & SB.... play the game. SF should have played the game by going to Westminster as soon as the DUP propped up the Tories back in 2017. Mind you I guess in reality they wanted Brexit to go through to maximise the chance of a border poll, so perhaps it was convenient.. |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
|
Post by Khunanup on Jan 19, 2022 13:29:38 GMT
Looks like this will be back on. Johnson announced in PMQs that the amendment permitting double jobbing is not going to be pursued in the Lords.
|
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366
|
Post by stb12 on Jan 19, 2022 13:55:21 GMT
Inevitable. While like I mentioned above I think people should be able to double job electoral offices if they want to the way this change was attempted seemed bizarrely targeted to help the DUP ahead of this year’s elections
|
|
|
|
Post by seanryanj on Jan 19, 2022 18:46:09 GMT
Looks like this will be back on. Johnson announced in PMQs that the amendment permitting double jobbing is not going to be pursued in the Lords. While on the one hand a likely lagan valley by election was the main focus for dup, I have noticed that DUP have been slow naming candidates for assembly so probably waiting to see if a few MPs could have ran. |
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,905
|
Post by YL on Jan 29, 2022 8:35:33 GMT
Would it make sense for the DUP for Donaldson to resign from Westminster in time to hold this on the same day as the Assembly election, or would it make more sense to leave it until he's actually elected to Stormont (assuming he is...) and then have the Westminster by-election in July?
|
|
