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Post by Merseymike on Jun 14, 2021 10:57:06 GMT
A good piece from a LD activist who will be staying out of the campaign here. I think the issue of NIMBYism obviously endemic to all the major parties, of course, and that it will only intensify over the next four to five years. linkWell, plenty of people oppose HS2 without supporting NIMBYism, though I can't speak for C&A LibDems.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 14, 2021 13:18:19 GMT
It is baffling to the point of absurdity that a party which was so strongly opposed to impositions on individual freedoms then chose 'remaining in the EU against the express wishes of the people' as the hill on which to die... Or their constant cries of "Make votes matter!" [sic] except for when the votes went against them.
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Post by islington on Jun 14, 2021 13:42:45 GMT
The idealogical core of the Lib Dems for me is perfectly well summarised in the preamble to the Lib Dem Constitution, and I suggest anyone who wants to know has a read. It is not a secret document.. Well that's a minute of my life that I will never get back. What an appallingly sanctimonious load of drivel. I agree it's sanctimonious but it's not drivel. It's just bland. It's a string of platitudes and pieties with which hardly anyone could disagree.
You'll find the 'motherhood-and-apple-pie' stuff in all such documents; but the key element that's missing here is anything controversial to which a lot of people would be opposed.
In short: where's the beef? (Or the vegan nut cutlet?)
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,180
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 14, 2021 13:53:52 GMT
Well that's a minute of my life that I will never get back. What an appallingly sanctimonious load of drivel. I agree it's sanctimonious but it's not drivel. It's just bland. It's a string of platitudes and pieties with which hardly anyone could disagree.
You'll find the 'motherhood-and-apple-pie' stuff in all such documents; but the key element that's missing here is anything controversial to which a lot of people would be opposed.
In short: where's the beef? (Or the vegan nut cutlet?)
Oi! We're not the Green Party.
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Post by islington on Jun 14, 2021 14:09:00 GMT
I agree it's sanctimonious but it's not drivel. It's just bland. It's a string of platitudes and pieties with which hardly anyone could disagree.
You'll find the 'motherhood-and-apple-pie' stuff in all such documents; but the key element that's missing here is anything controversial to which a lot of people would be opposed.
In short: where's the beef? (Or the vegan nut cutlet?)
Oi! We're not the Green Party. Well, if you were, you might at least have something to say with which reasonable people might disagree.
The Greens' core economic strategy, for instance, last time I looked (which to be fair was a few years ago so they may have moved on) was to engineer a huge contraction in the size of the economy - a slump of unprecedented proportions, in fact, and on purpose.
But the Lib Dems' principles seem designed to brush over all differences and leave no scope for disagreement. Even when referring to their cherished aim of reforming the voting system, they can't bring themselves to call for anything more than 'fair elections'. Well, I can subscribe to that, but only because I happen to regard FPTP as a perfectly fair way of holding an election.
Unless you're willing to say things that you know will put some voters off, I don't think you're likely to attract many either.
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k9
Non-Aligned
Posts: 103
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Post by k9 on Jun 14, 2021 14:20:14 GMT
There does not appear to be a byelection special on TV for the result.
Do we have an estimated time for announcement of the result?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 14, 2021 14:30:04 GMT
A good piece from a LD activist who will be staying out of the campaign here. I think the issue of NIMBYism obviously endemic to all the major parties, of course, and that it will only intensify over the next four to five years. linkShades of the nonsense with the phone mast in Bath.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,523
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 14, 2021 14:34:00 GMT
A good piece from a LD activist who will be staying out of the campaign here. I think the issue of NIMBYism obviously endemic to all the major parties, of course, and that it will only intensify over the next four to five years. linkIt's a real shame when a student at one of our ancient universities is unable to do even the smallest amount of research to find out that existing planning laws are entirely sufficient to enable the housebuilding we need and that there are over 1 million homes with outstanding planning permission that developers haven't bothered to build. Bring on LVT (party policy of course), that's the way to stop land-banking and encourage developers to build what they've got permission for.
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 14:37:25 GMT
There does not appear to be a byelection special on TV for the result. Do we have an estimated time for announcement of the result? I imagine Covid caution will make it take longer than usual
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 14, 2021 14:44:19 GMT
A good piece from a LD activist who will be staying out of the campaign here. I think the issue of NIMBYism obviously endemic to all the major parties, of course, and that it will only intensify over the next four to five years. linkIt's a real shame when a student at one of our ancient universities is unable to do even the smallest amount of research to find out that existing planning laws are entirely sufficient to enable the housebuilding we need and that there are over 1 million homes with outstanding planning permission that developers haven't bothered to build. Bring on LVT (party policy of course), that's the way to stop land-banking and encourage developers to build what they've got permission for. Getting rid of the CIL is the main reason for the new Planning Laws, and the main reason why big property developers gave so many millions to the Tories in the run up to the 2019 GE imo. CIL was a tax on development partly ring fenced to ensure at least 20% was spent on local infrastructure. Since it was based on square metres it was unavoidable, but could be zero rated in some zones by the LEA. The new infrastructure levy will be vaguely based on value and developers reckon they will easily avoid it.
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Post by greenhert on Jun 14, 2021 14:56:03 GMT
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Post by london(ex)tory on Jun 14, 2021 15:15:58 GMT
There does not appear to be a byelection special on TV for the result. Do we have an estimated time for announcement of the result? Don’t know but it will hopefully be much quicker than Hartlepool because they won’t have to do simultaneous verifications for metro mayor, council and PCC elections as well at the same time before being able to start actually counting!
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 14, 2021 15:17:36 GMT
Well that's a minute of my life that I will never get back. What an appallingly sanctimonious load of drivel. I agree it's sanctimonious but it's not drivel. It's just bland. It's a string of platitudes and pieties with which hardly anyone could disagree.
You'll find the 'motherhood-and-apple-pie' stuff in all such documents; but the key element that's missing here is anything controversial to which a lot of people would be opposed.
In short: where's the beef? (Or the vegan nut cutlet?) I think you (and maybe some others) are in danger of confusing the preamble to the constitution with a manifesto. The latter should indeed have some beef in it (or vegan equivalent) but for the preamble, that's most unlikely. The preamble was written when the party was formed and stands, unlikely to be changed, for all forseeable time. Of course if you reduce things down to the basics and very long term the danger is for a sceptic that reads as platitude. For a believer it does not. We carry it all the time in our wallets , and contrary to what is said above, it does inform the decisions we make. Does that apply to every party member? Of course not. But the preamble is for our benefit, it is not intended as a document to convert the non-believers out there, who may need to know what we are actually going to do (which is where a manifesto comes in ). Oddly, the common complaint about the LDs is that they are opportunists who don't stand for anything in the way of principles. Emphatically, as far as I'm concerned, not true. I am not saying the party doesn't have a few people who might fit that description, but that is true of all parties, I guess.
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 14, 2021 15:20:30 GMT
The Freedom Alliance appear to be quite wide-ranging, in the sense of containing both left and right wing libertarians
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 14, 2021 15:23:48 GMT
I agree it's sanctimonious but it's not drivel. It's just bland. It's a string of platitudes and pieties with which hardly anyone could disagree. You'll find the 'motherhood-and-apple-pie' stuff in all such documents; but the key element that's missing here is anything controversial to which a lot of people would be opposed.
In short: where's the beef? (Or the vegan nut cutlet?) I think you (and maybe some others) are in danger of confusing the preamble to the constitution with a manifesto. The latter should indeed have some beef in it (or vegan equivalent) but for the preamble, that's most unlikely. The preamble was written when the party was formed and stands, unlikely to be changed, for all forseeable time. Of course if you reduce things down to the basics and very long term the danger is for a sceptic that reads as platitude. For a believer it does not. We carry it all the time in our wallets , and contrary to what is said above, it does inform the decisions we make. Does that apply to every party member? Of course not. But the preamble is for our benefit, it is not intended as a document to convert the non-believers out there, who may need to know what we are actually going to do (which is where a manifesto comes in ). Oddly, the common complaint about the LDs is that they are opportunists who don't stand for anything in the way of principles. Emphatically, as far as I'm concerned, not true. I am not saying the party doesn't have a few people who might fit that description, but that is true of all parties, I guess. I don't think you are any worse than anyone else, no. I think the problem is that 'liberalism', as a political ideology, is very broad, and as has already been explained, has versions which can appear almost diametrically opposed in a very fundamental sense. While this is also so for socialism and conservatism, they don't have as much obvious crossover with each other, whereas liberalism can appear less distinctive.
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Post by iainbhx on Jun 14, 2021 16:03:44 GMT
There does not appear to be a byelection special on TV for the result. Do we have an estimated time for announcement of the result? Don’t know but it will hopefully be much quicker than Hartlepool because they won’t have to do simultaneous verifications for metro mayor, council and PCC elections as well at the same time before being able to start actually counting! Fair point, but I imagine there will be a lot more votes to count. I'd say the turnout is likely to be high 50's to low 60's.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jun 14, 2021 16:24:30 GMT
There does not appear to be a byelection special on TV for the result. Do we have an estimated time for announcement of the result? Recent declaration times: 2019 — 3:47am 2017 — 3:00am 2015 — 6:29am 2010 — 2:16am I don't know why 2015 was so late. The result wasn't close and no party was very close to 5% either. The Greens were on 5.5%.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 14, 2021 16:31:06 GMT
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Jun 14, 2021 16:42:07 GMT
It's a real shame when a student at one of our ancient universities is unable to do even the smallest amount of research to find out that existing planning laws are entirely sufficient to enable the housebuilding we need and that there are over 1 million homes with outstanding planning permission that developers haven't bothered to build. I think the general thrust of the article, that he finds it unconscionable to run a by-election campaign on NIMBYism (pausing the "blight" HS2 and preventing the building of new housing) remains, regardless of the specifics... unless the campaign against the planning reform is actually putting LVT front and centre (which in a seat like this, I highly doubt). For what it's worth, I've seen comment from people that it's being received on the doorstep as the kind of dog whistle to self-interested homeowners that most NIMBY talking points are. Of course, it's entirely possible that there's a little bit of "putting words in people's mouths" going on.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,523
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 14, 2021 17:17:56 GMT
A man very in touch with the party clearly. An associate fellow of Bright Blue, right at the heart of our party obviously... On a wider point, you get these kinds of articles all the time by disgruntled former party insiders who are close to one or more leadership groups in a political party, leave the party, align themselves with another who give them validation and then slag off their old party because some of their new contacts chuck money at them to do just that. And people who can't think for themselves lap it up.
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