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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 10:00:05 GMT
There appear to be two vacancies on the Common Council of the City of London Corporation, caused by resignations around the beginning of April: 1) Aldersgate ward. Joyce Nash (subsequently died on 13 June) 2) Aldgate ward. Sylvia Moys. And there's a vacancy for Alderman in Cordwainer ward, as Sir Roger Gifford died on 25 May. why are you showing the impending City of London Aldermanic election in Cordwainer ward in your “full list of forthcoming by-elections”? A by-election is an election to a Council for the remainder of the term of office of someone who has relinquished that office through death, disqualification or resignation. Uniquely for a principal area in UK Local Government, there is no provision for Aldermanic by-elections in the City of London. When a vacancy occurs after death, disqualification or resignation (the vacancy only occurring when the terminating cause is reported to a meeting of the Aldermanic Court) there will always be an election for a new full term of office, not a by-election to complete the predecessor’s term of office. I appreciate that ‘term of office’ is a slightly loose phrase in this case, where legally an Alderman is elected for life and it’s only by informal (but written) agreement that Aldermen accept a six year limitation to their term of office (an informal agreement currently abrogated by the Court of Aldermen because of the COVID crisis) but the point is that all elections to the position of Alderman in the City of London re-start that six year Aldermanic clock, and there is no provision for a by-election to see out the remaining term of the previous Alderman. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 3, 2022 10:55:29 GMT
There are no regular elections for Aldermen in the City of London, so all elections are byelections. A byelection is any election taking place outside a general election. There are no general elections of Aldermen.
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Post by spirit on Jan 3, 2022 10:58:10 GMT
James Evans MS (Conservative) has resigned as councillor for Gwernyfed, Powys County Council.
6 months rule and all that.
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Post by andrewteale on Jan 3, 2022 11:07:41 GMT
There appear to be two vacancies on the Common Council of the City of London Corporation, caused by resignations around the beginning of April: 1) Aldersgate ward. Joyce Nash (subsequently died on 13 June) 2) Aldgate ward. Sylvia Moys. And there's a vacancy for Alderman in Cordwainer ward, as Sir Roger Gifford died on 25 May. why are you showing the impending City of London Aldermanic election in Cordwainer ward in your “full list of forthcoming by-elections”? A by-election is an election to a Council for the remainder of the term of office of someone who has relinquished that office through death, disqualification or resignation. Uniquely for a principal area in UK Local Government, there is no provision for Aldermanic by-elections in the City of London. When a vacancy occurs after death, disqualification or resignation (the vacancy only occurring when the terminating cause is reported to a meeting of the Aldermanic Court) there will always be an election for a new full term of office, not a by-election to complete the predecessor’s term of office. I appreciate that ‘term of office’ is a slightly loose phrase in this case, where legally an Alderman is elected for life and it’s only by informal (but written) agreement that Aldermen accept a six year limitation to their term of office (an informal agreement currently abrogated by the Court of Aldermen because of the COVID crisis) but the point is that all elections to the position of Alderman in the City of London re-start that six year Aldermanic clock, and there is no provision for a by-election to see out the remaining term of the previous Alderman. The term "by-election" is in common use but isn't defined or used in the law relating to local elections in the rest of England. The relevant bits of the Local Government Act 1972 refer throughout to elections to fill casual vacancies. Since all elections to the City Court of Alderman are by definition elections to fill casual vacancies, I see no reason why they shouldn't go on the local by-election list. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 11:29:31 GMT
Davıd Boothroyd why are you showing the impending City of London Aldermanic election in Cordwainer ward in your “full list of forthcoming by-elections”? A by-election is an election to a Council for the remainder of the term of office of someone who has relinquished that office through death, disqualification or resignation. Uniquely for a principal area in UK Local Government, there is no provision for Aldermanic by-elections in the City of London. When a vacancy occurs after death, disqualification or resignation (the vacancy only occurring when the terminating cause is reported to a meeting of the Aldermanic Court) there will always be an election for a new full term of office, not a by-election to complete the predecessor’s term of office. I appreciate that ‘term of office’ is a slightly loose phrase in this case, where legally an Alderman is elected for life and it’s only by informal (but written) agreement that Aldermen accept a six year limitation to their term of office (an informal agreement currently abrogated by the Court of Aldermen because of the COVID crisis) but the point is that all elections to the position of Alderman in the City of London re-start that six year Aldermanic clock, and there is no provision for a by-election to see out the remaining term of the previous Alderman. The term "by-election" is in common use but isn't defined or used in the law relating to local elections in the rest of England. The relevant bits of the Local Government Act 1972 refer throughout to elections to fill casual vacancies. Since all elections to the City Court of Alderman are by definition elections to fill casual vacancies, I see no reason why they shouldn't go on the local by-election list. Fair enough points, andrewteale , and I understand your argument, but I think that your premise may be flawed as a result of the telling difference which can be seen in section 90 of the LGA 1972: “Term of office of persons filling casual vacancies. A person elected or appointed under the foregoing provisions of this Act in England or Wales to fill any casual vacancy shall hold office until the date upon which the person in whose place he is elected would regularly have retired, and he shall then retire.” In that key respect Aldermanic elections in the City of London Corporation are fundamentally different from all of the elections caused by casual vacancies which we conventionally call “by-elections”. s.90 of the LGA 1972 even effectively applies to Common Council casual vacancies in the City of London Corporation. That’s why saying that a City of London Aldermanic election is the result of a casual vacancy is at best misleading, and why it’s completely incorrect to call those elections “by-elections”. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jan 3, 2022 11:43:55 GMT
Have there been any cases of Aldermen refusing to resign and clinging onto the post?
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 3, 2022 12:55:18 GMT
Have there been any cases of Aldermen refusing to resign and clinging onto the post? Going off at a slight tangent...
It appears that Aldermen in general had to pay fine when they resigned. When Alderman Garlick resigned from Preston Borough Council in 1883 he had to shell out £20! When Alderman Gee resigned from Wigan council in March 1910 the amount handed over was a much more reasonable £1.
I don't know if there was a sliding scale or the penalties were fixed locally, but it is interesting. I wonder when the practise ceased?
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Post by batman on Jan 3, 2022 13:59:05 GMT
There are no regular elections for Aldermen in the City of London, so all elections are byelections. A byelection is any election taking place outside a general election. There are no general elections of Aldermen. of course, David wouldn't understand all of that, it being his own constituency & everything......... |
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Post by batman on Jan 3, 2022 14:00:35 GMT
Davıd Boothroyd why are you showing the impending City of London Aldermanic election in Cordwainer ward in your “full list of forthcoming by-elections”? A by-election is an election to a Council for the remainder of the term of office of someone who has relinquished that office through death, disqualification or resignation. Uniquely for a principal area in UK Local Government, there is no provision for Aldermanic by-elections in the City of London. When a vacancy occurs after death, disqualification or resignation (the vacancy only occurring when the terminating cause is reported to a meeting of the Aldermanic Court) there will always be an election for a new full term of office, not a by-election to complete the predecessor’s term of office. I appreciate that ‘term of office’ is a slightly loose phrase in this case, where legally an Alderman is elected for life and it’s only by informal (but written) agreement that Aldermen accept a six year limitation to their term of office (an informal agreement currently abrogated by the Court of Aldermen because of the COVID crisis) but the point is that all elections to the position of Alderman in the City of London re-start that six year Aldermanic clock, and there is no provision for a by-election to see out the remaining term of the previous Alderman. The term "by-election" is in common use but isn't defined or used in the law relating to local elections in the rest of England. The relevant bits of the Local Government Act 1972 refer throughout to elections to fill casual vacancies. Since all elections to the City Court of Alderman are by definition elections to fill casual vacancies, I see no reason why they shouldn't go on the local by-election list. exactly so. When there's a council, or any other kind of, by-election, the notice put up by the council always says "Election of a Councillor/Member of Parliament/whatever" and the term by-election is never used. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 19:13:10 GMT
There are no regular elections for Aldermen in the City of London, so all elections are byelections. A byelection is any election taking place outside a general election. There are no general elections of Aldermen. of course, David wouldn't understand all of that, it being his own constituency & everything......... The City of London is not part of the same Constituency as the ward represented by David Boothroyd, which is in Westminster North. David has an historic aversion to the idiosyncrasies of the Electoral and local government system that operates within the City of London. For example, despite the easily verifiable facts, he refuses to accept that, for City of London elections, polling day if required takes place on the working day following Election Day. David is not a reliable authority as to the electoral workings of the City of London Corporation. He is, however, a reliable authority as to the way he thinks the City of London Corporation should conduct its elections and its business. |
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Post by batman on Jan 3, 2022 19:41:10 GMT
I know the ward he represents is in Westminster North but unless he has moved, or I am very much mistaken, he lives in Cities of London & Westminster.
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Post by listener on Jan 3, 2022 19:52:46 GMT
Of course, if the Boundary Commission gets it way, it will soon be part of The City of London and Islington South, fiefdom of Emily Thornberry.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 3, 2022 21:27:18 GMT
of course, David wouldn't understand all of that, it being his own constituency & everything......... The City of London is not part of the same Constituency as the ward represented by David Boothroyd, which is in Westminster North. David has an historic aversion to the idiosyncrasies of the Electoral and local government system that operates within the City of London. For example, despite the easily verifiable facts, he refuses to accept that, for City of London elections, polling day if required takes place on the working day following Election Day. David is not a reliable authority as to the electoral workings of the City of London Corporation. He is, however, a reliable authority as to the way he thinks the City of London Corporation should conduct its elections and its business. The City can tell itself anything it likes about election day. As far as I am concerned the day of the election is the day on which the final votes are cast which actually determine who wins. Not the day before. |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Jan 3, 2022 22:13:09 GMT
The City of London is not part of the same Constituency as the ward represented by David Boothroyd, which is in Westminster North. David has an historic aversion to the idiosyncrasies of the Electoral and local government system that operates within the City of London. For example, despite the easily verifiable facts, he refuses to accept that, for City of London elections, polling day if required takes place on the working day following Election Day. David is not a reliable authority as to the electoral workings of the City of London Corporation. He is, however, a reliable authority as to the way he thinks the City of London Corporation should conduct its elections and its business. The City can tell itself anything it likes about election day. As far as I am concerned the day of the election is the day on which the final votes are cast which actually determine who wins. Not the day before. There is no such thing as "election day" in English law. Polling day in the City is defined as the day after the wardmote. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 22:38:16 GMT
The City of London is not part of the same Constituency as the ward represented by David Boothroyd, which is in Westminster North. David has an historic aversion to the idiosyncrasies of the Electoral and local government system that operates within the City of London. For example, despite the easily verifiable facts, he refuses to accept that, for City of London elections, polling day if required takes place on the working day following Election Day. David is not a reliable authority as to the electoral workings of the City of London Corporation. He is, however, a reliable authority as to the way he thinks the City of London Corporation should conduct its elections and its business. The City can tell itself anything it likes about election day. As far as I am concerned the day of the election is the day on which the final votes are cast which actually determine who wins. Not the day before. And there we have it. David is openly unwilling to accept the legal position in the City of London because he doesn’t agree with it! I’ll reproduce below sections 1 and 2 of the Act of Common Council of 13th September 2012 which currently is the legal basis of Common Council elections in the City of London. It makes it quite clear that the date of Election is the date fixed for the Wardmote, but if a poll is required because there are more candidates than places to be filled that that poll will take place on the day following the Wardmote day, that is the poll will take place on the day after the date set for the election. The General Rule is that elections take place on a Wednesday, but if a poll is required then polling day will be on the Thursday. 1. In this Act – “elections” means ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen. Ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen 2. (1) Elections shall take place in 2013 and every fourth year after 2013. (2) In any year that elections are required under subsection (1) then subject to subsection (3) those elections shall take place on the third Wednesday of March. (3) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (2) would require notice of a ward election to be published before 16 February in that year then subject to subsection (4) those elections shall take place on the fourth Wednesday of March. (4) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (3) would require any poll to be held on the Thursday adjacent to Good Friday then those elections shall take place on a date determined by the Town Clerk in consultation with the Lord Mayor. (5) Where under subsection (4) the Town Clerk determines the date on which elections shall take place that date shall be published and reported to the Court of Common Council no later than six months in advance of those elections. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Jan 3, 2022 23:14:32 GMT
The City can tell itself anything it likes about election day. As far as I am concerned the day of the election is the day on which the final votes are cast which actually determine who wins. Not the day before. And there we have it. David is openly unwilling to accept the legal position in the City of London because he doesn’t agree with it! I’ll reproduce below sections 1 and 2 of the Act of Common Council of 13th September 2012 which currently is the legal basis of Common Council elections in the City of London. It makes it quite clear that the date of Election is the date fixed for the Wardmote, but if a poll is required because there are more candidates than places to be filled that that poll will take place on the day following the Wardmote day, that is the poll will take place on the day after the date set for the election. The General Rule is that elections take place on a Wednesday, but if a poll is required then polling day will be on the Thursday. 1. In this Act – “elections” means ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen. Ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen 2. (1) Elections shall take place in 2013 and every fourth year after 2013. (2) In any year that elections are required under subsection (1) then subject to subsection (3) those elections shall take place on the third Wednesday of March. (3) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (2) would require notice of a ward election to be published before 16 February in that year then subject to subsection (4) those elections shall take place on the fourth Wednesday of March. (4) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (3) would require any poll to be held on the Thursday adjacent to Good Friday then those elections shall take place on a date determined by the Town Clerk in consultation with the Lord Mayor. (5) Where under subsection (4) the Town Clerk determines the date on which elections shall take place that date shall be published and reported to the Court of Common Council no later than six months in advance of those elections. The legal position might be that the Earth is flat, it doesn't change the facts. In common speech, election day is the day votes are casted and they cannot chnage that. |
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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 23:33:46 GMT
And there we have it. David is openly unwilling to accept the legal position in the City of London because he doesn’t agree with it! I’ll reproduce below sections 1 and 2 of the Act of Common Council of 13th September 2012 which currently is the legal basis of Common Council elections in the City of London. It makes it quite clear that the date of Election is the date fixed for the Wardmote, but if a poll is required because there are more candidates than places to be filled that that poll will take place on the day following the Wardmote day, that is the poll will take place on the day after the date set for the election. The General Rule is that elections take place on a Wednesday, but if a poll is required then polling day will be on the Thursday. 1. In this Act – “elections” means ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen. Ordinary ward elections in relation to the whole number of Common Councilmen 2. (1) Elections shall take place in 2013 and every fourth year after 2013. (2) In any year that elections are required under subsection (1) then subject to subsection (3) those elections shall take place on the third Wednesday of March. (3) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (2) would require notice of a ward election to be published before 16 February in that year then subject to subsection (4) those elections shall take place on the fourth Wednesday of March. (4) Where holding elections on a date determined in accordance with subsection (3) would require any poll to be held on the Thursday adjacent to Good Friday then those elections shall take place on a date determined by the Town Clerk in consultation with the Lord Mayor. (5) Where under subsection (4) the Town Clerk determines the date on which elections shall take place that date shall be published and reported to the Court of Common Council no later than six months in advance of those elections. The legal position might be that the Earth is flat, it doesn't change the facts. In common speech, election day is the day votes are casted and they cannot chnage that. Oh but they can and have done, on the following Authority: “His late Majesty King Edward the Third by his Charter made and granted to the City in the fifteenth year of his reign afterwards confirmed and ratified by Parliament did (amongst other things) grant that if any customs in the City before that time obtained and used were in any part hard or defective or any things in the City newly arising in which no remedy had been ordained should need amendment the Mayor and Aldermen of the City and their successors with the assent of the Commonalty of the City might put and ordain thereto fit remedy as often as it should seem expedient to them so that such ordinance should be profitable to the King and to the citizens and to all other liege subjects resorting to the City and agreeable also to reason and good faith” |
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Post by casualobserver on Jan 3, 2022 23:36:24 GMT
That, believe it or not, was the conclusion to the preamble to the Act of Common Council of 13th September 2012 which I posted earlier!
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Post by carolus on Jan 4, 2022 12:02:43 GMT
Wickham Bishops and Woodham, Maldon. Missing councillor is Karl Jarvis (Ind, elected as Con)
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Post by carolus on Jan 4, 2022 13:32:03 GMT
Crumpsall, Manchester. Richard Leese (former long-term leader of the council). Was due for re-election in 2022, so no byelection. Bromyard West, Herefordshire. Alan Seldon, It's Our County.
Edit:
Wigston Meadowcourt, Oadby & Wigston, due to the death of Robert Eaton (Lib Dem)
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