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Post by John Chanin on Apr 4, 2021 14:53:20 GMT
John - you're quite right, north London is a real headache for exactly the reason you state. Essentially there's an excess of 0.71 of a seat that needs to be accommodated somehow, or 0.66 after metro Essex + TH (entitlement 14.05) has received 14 seats. In my view the only way is to spread it as thinly as you can over the widest possible area. This is a real shame because it means some otherwise attractive combinations are ruled out purely on the numbers, for instance Barnet/Enfield = 4.90, City/Wminster/K&C = 2.88, Harrow/Hillingdon = 4.91. What’s really frustrating is that there are lots of good seats with electorates of around 70,000 which would be fine in any other region, but even one here makes life almost impossible, so natural boundaries have to be sacrificed. I’ll have a look at adding Childs Hill to Camden and see how that works. If I don’t need to add the City to Tower Hamlets there are better arrangements in NE London, which is where I started because it is my home region where I have lived most of my life. |
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Post by emidsanorak on Apr 4, 2021 19:46:08 GMT
Here's another go at Western Middlesex – tried to do mimimum change and avoid crossing the Ealing/Harrow and Hillingdon/Hounslow boundaries – the result is ten reasonably nice constituencies and one complete shocker: It is difficult to fit eleven seats into Ealing, Harrow, Hillingdon, Hounslow and Richmond upon Thames north of the River without butchering Southall. Here is one way: Brentford & Whitton (76172) Ealing Central & Acton (74683) Ealing West & Greenford (71957) Feltham (75749) Harrow East (76478) Harrow West (75676) Hayes & Harlington (75563) Ruislip & Roxbourne (75287) Southall & Heston (71744) Twickenham (75889) Uxbridge & Northolt (76530)  |
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Post by penwith on Apr 4, 2021 20:46:48 GMT
 1 Edmonton and Tottenham North 75168 Yes 2 Hendon 71496 Yes 3 Chipping Barnet 76187 Yes 4 Enfield North 76824 Yes 5 Finchley and Golders Green 75761 Yes 6 Hornsey and Friern Barnet 71739 Yes 7 Tottenham South and Wood Green 72350 Yes 8 Enfield Southgate 75002 Yes Hampstead and Highgate 76317 Islington North and Kentish Town 75215 Hackney Central 76867 Shoreditch and Finsbury 76378 Holborn, St Pancras and the Angel 74600 Highbury and Stoke Newington 74305 20 City of London, Westminster and Marylebone 74901 Yes 21 Paddington and Kilburn 74473 Yes 25 Ealing Acton 74683 Yes 26 Chelsea and Fulham 75585 Yes 27 Kensington and Shepherd's Bush 75257 Yes 28 Brentford and Heston 75831 Yes 29 Twickenham 75889 Yes 30 Feltham and Hounslow 75749 Yes 31 Ealing Southall 74104 Yes 32 Hammersmith and Chiswick 74035 Yes Wembley 73396 Willesden 76812 Greenford and Northolt 71986 Hayes and Harlington 72897 Harrow and Sudbury 76949 Uxbridge and South Ruislip 75042 Stanmore and Wealdstone 76516 Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner 75245 33 Stratford and Bow 73849 Yes 34 Poplar and Limehouse 75814 Yes 35 Bethnal Green and Stepney 77000 Yes 36 Chingford and Woodford Green 75255 Yes 37 Walthamstow East and Wanstead 75119 Yes 38 Romford 72267 Yes 39 Hornchurch and Upminster 71181 Yes 40 Dagenham and Rainham 73024 Yes 41 Barking 72317 Yes 42 Ilford South 75905 Yes 43 East Ham 70902 Yes 44 West Ham and Beckton 70590 Yes 45 Walthamstow West and Leyton 76762 Yes 46 Ilford North and Chadwell Heath 70910 Yes 47 Wimbledon 74248 Yes 48 Mitcham and Morden 77031 Yes 49 Richmond Park 75001 Yes 50 Kingston and Surbiton 75685 Yes 51 Sutton and Cheam 71284 Yes 52 Carshalton and Wallington 72755 Yes 53 Tooting 76986 Yes 54 Clapham and Balham 74483 Yes 55 Putney 76668 Yes 56 Vauxhall and Battersea Park 74297 Yes 57 Southwark and Bermondsey 70602 Yes 58 Peckham 72190 Yes 59 Camberwell and Brixton 71798 Yes 60 Dulwich and West Norwood 71095 Yes 61 Streatham 71112 Yes 62 Lewisham West and Deptford 72837 Yes 63 Lewisham South 77032 Yes 64 Eltham 72541 Yes 65 Greenwich and Blackheath 69953 Yes 66 Orpington 70474 Yes 67 Old Bexley and Sidcup 74317 Yes 68 Bexleyheath and Crayford 69948 Yes 69 Bromley and Chlslehurst 70940 Yes 70 Beckenham 74909 Yes 71 Upper Norwood and Penge 72055 Yes 72 Erith and Thamesmead 76728 Yes 73 Croydon West 70020 Yes 74 Croydon East 70293 Yes 75 Croydon South 74718 Yes The Beckenham seat is the worst of the lot, happy for others to be knocked down. |
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Post by greenhert on Apr 5, 2021 9:13:28 GMT
1 Edmonton and Tottenham North 75168 Yes 2 Hendon 71496 Yes 3 Chipping Barnet 76187 Yes 4 Enfield North 76824 Yes 5 Finchley and Golders Green 75761 Yes 6 Hornsey and Friern Barnet 71739 Yes 7 Tottenham South and Wood Green 72350 Yes 8 Enfield Southgate 75002 Yes Hampstead and Highgate 76317 Islington North and Kentish Town 75215 Hackney Central 76867 Shoreditch and Finsbury 76378 Holborn, St Pancras and the Angel 74600 Highbury and Stoke Newington 74305 20 City of London, Westminster and Marylebone 74901 Yes 21 Paddington and Kilburn 74473 Yes 25 Ealing Acton 74683 Yes 26 Chelsea and Fulham 75585 Yes 27 Kensington and Shepherd's Bush 75257 Yes 28 Brentford and Heston 75831 Yes 29 Twickenham 75889 Yes 30 Feltham and Hounslow 75749 Yes 31 Ealing Southall 74104 Yes 32 Hammersmith and Chiswick 74035 Yes Wembley 73396 Willesden 76812 Greenford and Northolt 71986 Hayes and Harlington 72897 Harrow and Sudbury 76949 Uxbridge and South Ruislip 75042 Stanmore and Wealdstone 76516 Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner 75245 33 Stratford and Bow 73849 Yes 34 Poplar and Limehouse 75814 Yes 35 Bethnal Green and Stepney 77000 Yes 36 Chingford and Woodford Green 75255 Yes 37 Walthamstow East and Wanstead 75119 Yes 38 Romford 72267 Yes 39 Hornchurch and Upminster 71181 Yes 40 Dagenham and Rainham 73024 Yes 41 Barking 72317 Yes 42 Ilford South 75905 Yes 43 East Ham 70902 Yes 44 West Ham and Beckton 70590 Yes 45 Walthamstow West and Leyton 76762 Yes 46 Ilford North and Chadwell Heath 70910 Yes 47 Wimbledon 74248 Yes 48 Mitcham and Morden 77031 Yes 49 Richmond Park 75001 Yes 50 Kingston and Surbiton 75685 Yes 51 Sutton and Cheam 71284 Yes 52 Carshalton and Wallington 72755 Yes 53 Tooting 76986 Yes 54 Clapham and Balham 74483 Yes 55 Putney 76668 Yes 56 Vauxhall and Battersea Park 74297 Yes 57 Southwark and Bermondsey 70602 Yes 58 Peckham 72190 Yes 59 Camberwell and Brixton 71798 Yes 60 Dulwich and West Norwood 71095 Yes 61 Streatham 71112 Yes 62 Lewisham West and Deptford 72837 Yes 63 Lewisham South 77032 Yes 64 Eltham 72541 Yes 65 Greenwich and Blackheath 69953 Yes 66 Orpington 70474 Yes 67 Old Bexley and Sidcup 74317 Yes 68 Bexleyheath and Crayford 69948 Yes 69 Bromley and Chlslehurst 70940 Yes 70 Beckenham 74909 Yes 71 Upper Norwood and Penge 72055 Yes 72 Erith and Thamesmead 76728 Yes 73 Croydon West 70020 Yes 74 Croydon East 70293 Yes 75 Croydon South 74718 Yes The Beckenham seat is the worst of the lot, happy for others to be knocked down. The map of Barnet's seats look neater than mine but you have really made a mess of North Central London-the seats created there appear to be designed in the hope that Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott (and possibly Keir Starmer also) will be deselected as a result of the boundary changes the likelihood is both Mr Corbyn and Ms Abbott at the next general election anyway and Sir Keir would win the selection contest for the redrawn seat easily, as Michael Foot did when Ebbw Vale was expanded to become Blaenau Gwent. |
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
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Post by bsjmcr on Apr 5, 2021 17:32:48 GMT
The Beckenham seat is the worst of the lot, happy for others to be knocked down. The map of Barnet's seats look neater than mine but you have really made a mess of North Central London-the seats created there appear to be designed in the hope that Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott (and possibly Keir Starmer also) will be deselected as a result of the boundary changes the likelihood is both Mr Corbyn and Ms Abbott at the next general election anyway and Sir Keir would win the selection contest for the redrawn seat easily, as Michael Foot did when Ebbw Vale was expanded to become Blaenau Gwent. I wouldn't be surprised if either if not both of them step down at the next election*, having said that, they may equally like to become a Ted Heath-esque figure for as long as they can if it looks likely KS gets to enter No. 10. *I know JC is independent - who knows if he will ever be re-admitted to the party - could he win as an Independent if he tried? I thought the same about many of the Independent 2019 candidates and was proved wrong, but on top of his high profile he seems to have a significant personal vote and really put the area on the map with his little house being a permanent fixture on the news and might want to play the victim and gain sympathy from constituents. His 2005 result was pretty good compared to Islington South which of course had a new candidate Thornberry returned with a three-figure majority. The idea of being 'too old' has effectively been thrown out of the water what with Biden being elected... |
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Post by John Chanin on Apr 12, 2021 8:21:08 GMT
John - you're quite right, north London is a real headache for exactly the reason you state. Essentially there's an excess of 0.71 of a seat that needs to be accommodated somehow, or 0.66 after metro Essex + TH (entitlement 14.05) has received 14 seats. In my view the only way is to spread it as thinly as you can over the widest possible area. This is a real shame because it means some otherwise attractive combinations are ruled out purely on the numbers, for instance Barnet/Enfield = 4.90, City/Wminster/K&C = 2.88, Harrow/Hillingdon = 4.91. What’s really frustrating is that there are lots of good seats with electorates of around 70,000 which would be fine in any other region, but even one here makes life almost impossible, so natural boundaries have to be sacrificed. I’ll have a look at adding Childs Hill to Camden and see how that works. If I don’t need to add the City to Tower Hamlets there are better arrangements in NE London, which is where I started because it is my home region where I have lived most of my life. Thank you. In my original scoping I noticed that Barnet had to lose its ward east, but it seemed more natural to link it with Enfield and I never got round to checking the Camden option. As you say it all slots together very nicely, and I can revert to my good arrangement for NE London. I won't bother going into detail, as I don't suppose it is very different from what other people have, and everyone has moved on. |
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Post by John Chanin on Apr 12, 2021 9:16:47 GMT
Now for south London which has taken me another week. I found a reasonable solution for SW London (including Lambeth) but could not find anything satisfactory for SE London, Croydon and Bromley being extremely awkward. So I went back, added a couple of Merton wards to north Croydon, did a bit of rejigging, and added 2 Southwark wards to Lambeth to compensate. I then managed something not too awful for SE London, although with a number of orphan wards - perhaps not too much of a problem in London. I think this time I will list my result (still no maps I'm afraid, although they aren't always that easy to read). I know everyone else did SE London in January, so there's probably no interest.
Richmond Park (73,069) loses Canbury
Kingston & Surbiton (70,336) gains Canbury loses the 3 Malden wards
Morden & Malden (75,424) The 8 SW wards of Merton plus Malden
Wimbledon & Merton (73,123) The 9 NW wards of Merton plus Earlsfield
Putney (75,808) gains Wandsworth Common
Tooting (73,929) loses Earlsfield and Wandsworth Common. Gains Balham and Graveney ward of Merton
Battersea & Clapham (75,523) loses Balham and Queenstown. Gains the 2 Clapham wards from Lambeth
Vauxhall & Battersea Park (74,955) loses Clapham Town and Ferndale. Gains Queenstown from Wandsworth
Brixton (76,023) 7 wards in central Lambeth. Not similar to any present seat
Streatham & Dulwich (73,732) The 6 southern wards of Lambeth plus Dulwich Wood & Village from Southwark.
Peckham (74,729) adjusted to new wards, but loses Camberwell and gains north Dulwich
Camberwell & Southwark (69,825) adjusted to new wards, but gains Camberwell and loses Bermondsey
Bermondsey & Deptford (73,357) the 5 NE wards of Southwark plus 3 Deptford wards from Lewisham
Lewisham West (72,016) the rest of the old Deptford seat plus Forest Hill and Perry Vale
Lewisham East (71,706) adjusted to new wards, loses Blackheath, gains Bellingham
Greenwich & Woolwich (70,767) loses Glyndon and Charlton. Gains Blackheath from Lewisham.
Eltham (71,727) loses Shooters Hill, gains Charlton and Mottingham from Bromley
Plumstead & Erith (76,728) gains Glyndon and Shooters Hill. Loses the bits of West Heath and Northumberland Heath in present seat.
Bexleyheath & Crayford (69,948) loses the bits of E Wickham and Falconwood in present seat. Gains as above.
Bexley & Sidcup (74,317) gains the bits lost by Bexleyheath.
Bromley & Chislehurst (71,035) Loses Mottingham. Gains Cray Valley East
Beckenham (76,368) New seat. 3 wards from current Beckenham (Kelsey, Copers Cope, Shortlands), the 3 Bromley wards currently in Lewisham W & Penge, plus Sydenham from Lewisham (currently in same seat)
Orpington (70,379) gains Bromley Common, loses Cray Valley East
Croydon E & West Wickham (73,184) partial successor to Croydon Central. Shirley, Selsdon and New Addington from Croydon, plus W Wickham and Hayes from Bromley.
Croydon South (71,541) gains Park Hill, loses bits of Selsdon in current seat.
Croydon West (76,549) the rest of the current Croydon Central plus Broad Green, Selhurst, and South Norwood.
Croydon N & Pollards Hill (71,953) loses the 3 wards above. Gains Pollards Hill and Longthornton from Merton.
The 2 Sutton seats are unaltered.
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Post by John Chanin on Apr 12, 2021 10:43:19 GMT
Actually having checked back it may be worth listing my solution for NE London. (Still want to have a further look at NW London, where I think we agree there is no ideal solution).
Romford (72,267) unchanged
Upminster (71,181) loses Hacton (I know this splits Hornchurch but what else?)
Dagenham & S Hornchurch (73,024) gains Hacton and Alibon. Loses Whalebone and Chadwell Heath
Barking (72,317) just loses Alibon
Ilford North (71,073) gains the 2 Barking wards plus Chadwell. Loses Fullwell, Bridge, and the old Forest ward.
Ilford South (74,498) loses Chadwell
Woodford (76,676) essentially a new seat, with the territory from Ilford North above, and Wanstead, plus the Woodford wards, and Hatch Lane and Chingford Green from Waltham Forest.
Chingford & Walthamstow (76,866) the remaining 4 Chingford wards, plus 5 wards from the present Walthamstow seat.
Leyton (74,838) loses Wanstead. Gains the remaining 3 Walthamstow wards
East Ham (70,902) loses Beckton and Royal Docks
Newham South (70,865) the 2 wards above plus Canning Town & Plaistow from the West Ham seat
Stratford & Bow (73,574) the 4 remaining Newham wards (Stratford and Forest Gate) plus the 2 Bow wards and Bromley North
Poplar (76,519) loses Bromley N, St Katherines, and Shadwell. Gains St Dunstans
Bethnal Green & Stepney (76,295) the rest of Tower Hamlets
Hackney S & Clerkenwell (72,134) loses Homerton, Kings Park, and Hackney C. Gains Bunhill and Clerkenwell from Islington.
Hackney Central (76,564) the 3 wards above plus 6 wards from the present Hackney N seat
Finsbury Park (75,343) the Islington North seat minus Junction and Tufnell Park, plus Brownswood, Woodberry Down, and Stamford Hill W from Hackney.
Islington West (72,144) the Islington South seat minus Bunhill and Clerkenwell, plus Junction and Tufnell Park.
Tottenham & Stamford Hill (76,717) loses Harringay, St Anns, Hermitage. Gains Springfield and Cazenove from Hackney
Hornsey (73,758) gains the 3 wards mentioned above. Loses the 4 Wood Green wards.
Southgate & Wood Green (74,621) 7 new Enfield wards (from existing seat adjusted to new boundaries) plus the Wood Green wards from Haringey.
Edmonton (75,002) new wards, but basically gains Bowes, Brimsdown, and Carterhatch and loses Bush Hill Park
Enfield North (76,620) gains Cockfosters and Grange Park from Southgate, and Bush Hill Park from Edmonton. Loses Brimsdown & Carterhatch
Chipping Barnet (76,187) loses Friern Barnet, gains Edgwarebury
Finchley & Golders Green (71,134) gains Friern Barnet, loses Childs Hill and Cricklewood
Hendon (76,673) gains Cricklewood, loses Edgwarebury
Hampstead (76,850) Camden wards of existing seat, plus Childs Hill from Barnet, Gospel Oak, Highgate, and Kentish Town N
Holborn & St Pancras (74,462) the grossly oversized seat loses the 3 wards above.
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Post by kevinlarkin on Apr 12, 2021 15:22:19 GMT
Putney (75,808) gains Wandsworth Common You might want to take another look at this one. |
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Post by John Chanin on Apr 12, 2021 18:41:30 GMT
Putney (75,808) gains Wandsworth Common You might want to take another look at this one. Thanks. That's what comes of hastily amending my SW London solution because I couldn'y get SE London to work. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Apr 13, 2021 10:41:26 GMT
Well, I've finally got 75 yeses. Not sure I like several elements of this, but here goes: Group A – Bexley, Bromley, Croydon
Group B – Greenwich, Lewisham, Southwark 1 Erith and Crayford 74032 Yes 2 Bexleyheath 70311 Yes 3 Orpington and Sidcup 73248 Yes 4 Hayes and Chelsfield 72138 Yes 5 Bromley and Chislehurst 74494 Yes 6 Crystal Palace 74094 Yes 7 Croydon West 76287 Yes 8 Croydon East 74250 Yes 9 Croydon South 74718 Yes — 10 Lewisham West 71543 Yes 11 Lewisham East 71706 Yes 12 Greenwich and Deptford 69932 Yes 13 Eltham 73604 Yes 14 Woolwich 72478 Yes 15 Bermondsey 71622 Yes 16 Camberwell 70411 Yes 17 Peckham 71720 Yes Group C – Richmond (Surrey portion), Wandsworth, Lambeth, Merton, Kingston
Group D – Sutton 18 Kingston and Surbiton 70434 Yes 19 Wimbledon and New Malden 76383 Yes 23 Mitcham West and Morden 73771 Yes 26 Mitcham East and Streatham 76931 Yes 29 West Norwood 74538 Yes 28 Vauxhall 73713 Yes 27 Battersea and Clapham 76296 Yes 25 Tooting 76986 Yes 24 Wandsworth Central 69739 Yes 20 Richmond Park 72582 Yes — 21 Sutton and Cheam 71284 Yes 22 Carshalton and Wallington 72755 Yes Group E – Richmond (Middlesex portion), Hounslow, Ealing, Hillingdon, Harrow 30 Twickenham 75889 Yes 31 Brentford and Isleworth 76172 Yes 32 Feltham 75749 Yes 33 Southall and Heston 75873 Yes 34 Ealing Central and Acton 74683 Yes 35 Ealing North 72985 Yes 36 Hayes and Harlington 76096 Yes 37 Uxbridge 70840 Yes 38 Ruislip, Northwood, and Pinner 75700 Yes 39 Harrow West and South Ruislip 75263 Yes 40 Harrow East 76478 Yes Group F – Havering, Barking, Redbridge, Waltham Forest
Group G – Newham, Tower Hamlets 41 Upminster 70809 Yes 42 Hornchurch 73655 Yes 43 Romford 73612 Yes 44 Barking 76589 Yes 45 Ilford South 75517 Yes 46 Ilford North 74684 Yes 47 Chingford and Woodford 75727 Yes 48 Walthamstow 70111 Yes 49 Leyton and Wanstead 72036 Yes — 50 East Ham 70902 Yes 51 West Ham 70841 Yes 52 London Docklands 75806 Yes 53 Stepney 75958 Yes 54 Bethnal Green and Bow 74648 Yes Group H – Hackney, Haringey, Enfield
Group I – Islington, City of London 55 Hackney South and Shoreditch 75007 Yes 56 Hackney North and Stoke Newington 76370 Yes 57 Hornsey and Woodberry Down 72921 Yes 58 Wood Green 77062 Yes 59 Edmonton and Tottenham 76291 Yes 60 Enfield North 76824 Yes 61 Enfield Southgate 75002 Yes — 67 Islington South and the City of London 75760 Yes 68 Islington North 73970 Yes Group J – Hammersmith, Kensington, Camden, Westminster, Brent, Barnet 62 Chelsea and Fulham 76365 Yes 63 Hammersmith 74159 Yes 64 Kensington and Westminster West 75545 Yes 65 Hampstead 76317 Yes 66 Holborn and St Pancras 70909 Yes 70 Westminster 73207 Yes 69 Willesden 77052 Yes 72 Wembley 76278 Yes 71 Neasden 75626 Yes 73 Finchley and Golders Green 75761 Yes 74 Chipping Barnet 70343 Yes 75 Hendon 71062 Yes |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Apr 13, 2021 11:52:53 GMT
Having said all that, I actually favour splitting Wandsworth's ridiculous Fairfield ward and making all of South West London work with far less change:  1 Richmond and Kingston 75860 Yes 2 Surbiton 74826 Yes 3 Wimbledon and Coombe 74385 Yes 4 Mitcham and Morden 76894 Yes 5 Tooting 76986 Yes 6 Putney 73020 Yes 7 Battersea 71970 Yes 8 Vauxhall 72934 Yes 9 Streatham 69785 Yes 10 West Norwood 74713 Yes (I've used an estimate of 3648 for Fairfield FFD. It shouldn't be wildly out.) |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 13, 2021 12:02:55 GMT
It is ludicrous that Wandsworth is ideal for three seats, but you can't do them in practice unless you split a ward.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 13, 2021 16:05:58 GMT
It is ludicrous that Wandsworth is ideal for three seats, but you can't do them in practice unless you split a ward. Challenge accepted!  |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Apr 13, 2021 16:45:47 GMT
It is ludicrous that Wandsworth is ideal for three seats, but you can't do them in practice unless you split a ward. Challenge accepted! I suppose it's still true with the rider of not completely trashing the within-range Tooting constituency. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 13, 2021 17:00:00 GMT
It is ludicrous that Wandsworth is ideal for three seats, but you can't do them in practice unless you split a ward. Challenge accepted! If you'd come up with this scheme ahead of the 2010 election you might have succeeded in gerrymandering three Conservative seats as well |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 13, 2021 18:50:47 GMT
Challenge accepted! I suppose it's still true with the rider of not completely trashing the within-range Tooting constituency. Better?  |
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Post by greenhert on Apr 13, 2021 19:50:39 GMT
I suppose it's still true with the rider of not completely trashing the within-range Tooting constituency. Better? No, definitely worse than the first non-split Wandsworth plan. If only the new Wandsworth ward boundaries (to be used from 2022) had been finalised before December 2020! |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 14, 2021 8:53:05 GMT
The new Wandsworth boundaries don't particularly help, as far as I can see. Putney would still be undersize and Wandsworth Town would be too big to be added, so you still need either a ward split or something weird in the west of the borough.
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Post by kevinlarkin on Apr 14, 2021 12:28:50 GMT
The new Wandsworth boundaries don't particularly help, as far as I can see. Putney would still be undersize and Wandsworth Town would be too big to be added, so you still need either a ward split or something weird in the west of the borough. If you added the new 2-member Wandle ward to Putney and Balham to Tooting the numbers should work, although Battersea would be close to the lower limit. |
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