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Post by greatkingrat on Nov 15, 2022 16:10:57 GMT
Yes it is being split, but I wouldn't call either of them "highly marginal". Electoral Calculus shows Farnham & Bordon with a notional 11966 majority, and Godalming & Ash with a 12033 majority. So they are actually both safer than the existing South West Surrey which had a 8817 majority.
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Post by bjornhattan on Nov 15, 2022 16:19:06 GMT
I can see that it gets split into two but I highly doubt those are going to be highly marginal seats. Ash is the one area in Guildford borough that has remained fairly loyal to the Conservatives even locally, and Bordon/Whitehill doesn't look like outstanding Lib Dem territory either. At a push these successor seats might be on the fringes of marginal status, but I'd be very surprised if either was won by the Lib Dems barring a massive surge nationally. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 16:21:47 GMT
Yes sorry, I was agreeing with the "being spilt" more than the "highly marginal". That is pure Daily Mail.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 15, 2022 16:41:03 GMT
I can see that it gets split into two but I highly doubt those are going to be highly marginal seats. Ash is the one area in Guildford borough that has remained fairly loyal to the Conservatives even locally, and Bordon/Whitehill doesn't look like outstanding Lib Dem territory either. At a push these successor seats might be on the fringes of marginal status, but I'd be very surprised if either was won by the Lib Dems barring a massive surge nationally. Though the county councillor for Ash is now Lib Dem (which was my shock of the night for Surrey, we didn't do very well in Ash in the district,where elsewhere we put the Tories to the sword, two years before) and Whitehill & Borden was solid Lib Dem until the coalition and the defection of our county councillor for the area, and we're back on the board there from '19. So in both those areas there're bases that can be built on. |
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Post by kevinlarkin on Nov 20, 2022 15:01:50 GMT
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YL
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Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Nov 20, 2022 20:48:59 GMT
Now we've had all the revised proposals, is there any competition to Denny & Auchterarder "Clackmannanshire & Forth Valley" for the title of Worst Proposed Constituency? The BCW's Rhondda and the BCE's Harwich & North Essex can't quite compete, I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 7:44:02 GMT
Now we've had all the revised proposals, is there any competition to Denny & Auchterarder "Clackmannanshire & Forth Valley" for the title of Worst Proposed Constituency? The BCW's Rhondda and the BCE's Harwich & North Essex can't quite compete, I think. Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! |
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Post by islington on Nov 21, 2022 7:50:59 GMT
Now we've had all the revised proposals, is there any competition to Denny & Auchterarder "Clackmannanshire & Forth Valley" for the title of Worst Proposed Constituency? The BCW's Rhondda and the BCE's Harwich & North Essex can't quite compete, I think. Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! I think you need to swim the river Forth as well. |
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 21, 2022 8:13:55 GMT
Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! I think you need to swim the river Forth as well. Good constituency for a triathlon, oerhaps? |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 21, 2022 12:50:37 GMT
Now we've had all the revised proposals, is there any competition to Denny & Auchterarder "Clackmannanshire & Forth Valley" for the title of Worst Proposed Constituency? The BCW's Rhondda and the BCE's Harwich & North Essex can't quite compete, I think. Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! Good heavens! Whatever next? Could those apendages you refer to be 'legs'? Could this involve a small effort? Outrage! Outrage!! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 12:57:24 GMT
Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! Good heavens! Whatever next? Could those apendages you refer to be 'legs'? Could this involve a small effort? Outrage! Outrage!! I'm not sure even you can defend this, let alone walk it!  |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 21, 2022 12:59:16 GMT
Clackmannan has to be the worst. Unless I misunderstand the map you need walking equipment to cross from one part to the other! I think you need to swim the river Forth as well. But why? Why all this blather every time. The electors will not notice as it does not affect them in any manner at all. No one ever needs to go from one part to another, ever. Constituencies are there merely for voting and to be as fair and equal in size as is possible. they are not designed for an extreme minority of nerks with very odd desires, nor for poltical parties convenience, nor for those odd souls who are out to canvass. They are for fairness and for voting. The MP will have access to a car and or driver and will probably be sensible enough to use roads and bridges when moving about. Some of you really need to adopt a bit of common sense and to 'get a life'! |
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 21, 2022 13:02:47 GMT
Good heavens! Whatever next? Could those apendages you refer to be 'legs'? Could this involve a small effort? Outrage! Outrage!! I'm not sure even you can defend this, let alone walk it! Yes I do defend it completely. Why does it matter in any way at all to anyone at all, including you? Who on earth would ever contemplate such a senseless journey ever? And for what purpose? What on earth is this blithering idiocy about? Explain it tome in simple terms old chap. |
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Post by islington on Nov 21, 2022 13:13:33 GMT
I think you need to swim the river Forth as well. But why? Why all this blather every time. The electors will not notice as it does not affect them in any manner at all. No one ever needs to go from one part to another, ever. Constituencies are there merely for voting and to be as fair and equal in size as is possible. they are not designed for an extreme minority of nerks with very odd desires, nor for poltical parties convenience, nor for those odd souls who are out to canvass. They are for fairness and for voting. The MP will have access to a car and or driver and will probably be sensible enough to use roads and bridges when moving about. Some of you really need to adopt a bit of common sense and to 'get a life'! See para 36 of the BCE guidelines:
As far as possible, the BCE seeks to create constituencies ... that do not contain ‘detached parts’, i.e. where the only physical connection between one part of the constituency and the remainder would require travel through a different constituency.
I assume there is similar provision in Scotland but I haven't checked.
Now, each of us may agree or disagree with any or all of the guidelines. But whether we agree with the published guidelines or not, we all agree (don't we?) that the review should take place in accordance with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 13:34:30 GMT
I'm not sure even you can defend this, let alone walk it! Yes I do defend it completely. Why does it matter in any way at all to anyone at all, including you? Who on earth would ever contemplate such a senseless journey ever? And for what purpose? What on earth is this blithering idiocy about? Explain it tome in simple terms old chap. If we allow seats to be drawn any which way, then we're opening the doors to American -style gerrymandering where "anything goes" would result in biased consistencies and unfair elections. As far as possible a constituency needs to be credible, and that includes whether you can travel from one end to the other without needing to inform Mountain Rescue. You have an entrenched opinion. I have mine. We differ. |
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ilerda
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Post by ilerda on Nov 21, 2022 13:47:13 GMT
Whilst I agree that constituencies shouldn't be drawn simply for the convenience of the elected member or their campaign, I do think it helps an MP to be able to speak and act on behalf of their voters when those voters form to a significant extent a community of place.
It's by no means of the same importance as when defining national or local government boundaries, but communities of place do exist and should be recognised, particularly by those of a more conservative disposition. Disregarding is not helpful to encouraging political engagement, and reduces the affinity of the elected member with the place they are elected to represent.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 21, 2022 13:52:29 GMT
Whilst I agree that constituencies shouldn't be drawn simply for the convenience of the elected member or their campaign, I do think it helps an MP to be able to speak and act on behalf of their voters when those voters form to a significant extent a community of place. It's by no means of the same importance as when defining national or local government boundaries, but communities of place do exist and should be recognised, particularly by those of a more conservative disposition. Disregarding is not helpful to encouraging political engagement, and reduces the affinity of the elected member with the place they are elected to represent. I strongly agree with this. I think the problem is that too often there is no such community of place, but that is not just an issue of boundaries. It reflects a deeper problem of alienation between individuals, sub-communities, and between populations and the places where they live, which is (or ought to be) of concern to local and national authorities. This is one of those issues where I find myself in the camp of "those of a more conservative disposition." I think it one of the great virtues of conservatism. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 21, 2022 13:53:56 GMT
There's no justification for FPTP if the constituencies created do not make some sort of sense (which does not necessarily have to be a strictly geographical one). None.
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Post by johnloony on Nov 21, 2022 14:02:44 GMT
I think you need to swim the river Forth as well. But why? Why all this blather every time. The electors will not notice as it does not affect them in any manner at all. No one ever needs to go from one part to another, ever. Constituencies are there merely for voting and to be as fair and equal in size as is possible. they are not designed for an extreme minority of nerks with very odd desires, nor for poltical parties convenience, nor for those odd souls who are out to canvass. They are for fairness and for voting. The MP will have access to a car and or driver and will probably be sensible enough to use roads and bridges when moving about. Some of you really need to adopt a bit of common sense and to 'get a life'! I agree with carlton43. People sometimes talk about the difficulties of travelling from one part of a constituency to another part of the same constituency, and the need to go through another constituency on the journey (or the difficulty of travelling on main roads or whatever). This would be a problem if there was a big wall on the boundary between each constituency, or if there was a law saying that a journey within a constituency can’t stray over the border into another constituency, but there isn’t. I am happy for there to be a number of exclaves and detached parts of constituencies, and it’s a pity there aren’t more. I would even like to see a whole map of the UK looking like Baarle-Nassau, just for the fun of it. Perhaps we could have 650 constituencies, constructed of whole unsplit wards, with the only criterion being the desire to minimise the difference in electorate between the smallest and largest constituencies. P.S. perhaps that method could be used for an elected replacement for the House of Lords. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 14:12:45 GMT
There's no justification for FPTP if the constituencies created do not make some sort of sense (which does not necessarily have to be a strictly geographical one). None. Exactly this. Defenders of FPTP always say "There has to be a constituency link". If the seats are just drawn from any old chunk of land, then that argument falls. |
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