"Independents" vs "Socialists" before 1974

[matureleft]

Dec 23, 2020 16:29:28 GMT Merseymike said:

Dec 23, 2020 16:16:01 GMT iain said:

It can also be to give you an idea of where you are doing well / badly - e.g. should somewhere be detargeted?

I think that's probably more the case for the LibDems give your very focused targeting. It's more something to reflect on after the election.
Labour moved towards virtually engaging them in a questionnaire on the doorstep. I thought it was intrusive and unnecessary

Indeed. There was a period during the early Blair period when a person carrying out a "proper" canvass (or Voter ID as I think it became) would have had to have asked several questions. It's true that canvassing can be lazy and casual - lots of don't knows, taking evasive answers as positives, ignoring the rest of the family, failing to check who you're talking to. But one has to recognise that:

a. it's a voluntary activity and isn't everyone's cup of tea. Good canvassers in all but the strongest CLPs are scarce and need efficient use if the ground is to be covered.

b. the elector has no obligation to assist and tiresome behaviour makes helpful, accurate answers less likely

c. some electors deliberately mislead or are too embarrassed to give accurate information and many don't accurately know their family's sympathies, including spousal ignorance - I've left couples arguing on the doorstep occasionally.

I found that I thinned the doubtfuls down pretty much by carefully watching the face and asking one further question, have you recently (or ever) voted Labour? And a quick look at past voting helped a lot - inveterate non-voters claiming to be strong Labour supporters.

I'd knock on a hundred doors before I'd do any telephone work. Hated that.

[Pete Whitehead]

The only time I have voted for 'Independents' was in a parish council election in Newmarket. In the district elections on the same day, my (safe Conservative) ward was a straight fight between Conservative and Labour slates while the parish election for the same ward saw a straight fight between a Labour slate and 'Independents'. I assumed that the Independents were Conservatives in all but name and voted for them entirely on that basis

[Merseymike]

Dec 24, 2020 7:44:10 GMT yellowperil said:

Coming back to@merseymike, I note:
1. He thinks the sole purpose of canvassing  is to identify supporters  so that  they can be got out on the day
2. He doesn't like knocking up on the day.

There seemed to be a contradiction between these two positions, until he reminded us that in his neck of the woods he could rely anyway on North Korean style majorities, which maybe explains it, though I don't think the North Koreans would be so squeamish about knocking up.

I'm not saying that knocking up on the day shouldn't happen. Just that I won't do it, that's all!
,
When I lived in less monolithically safe areas I ran the committee room. In the reading pad era, of course. I was taught how to do it properly by the late Cllr. John Turner of High Wycombe, who used to be Bob Maxwell's agent in Buckingham - he knew stuff about Maxwell he would never tell anyone. This was way before his disappearance and he just used to say "he's a crook". But at the time it was regarded as one of the best organised Labour parties in Britain.

Locally, I always used to spend the day with the late Cllr. Carol Gustafson, who had a tannoy system, and we spent the day driving round Bootle and Crosby. She knew the ward boundaries which helped. Then to the count to hear the 92% vote shares for the Bootle wards!

[Merseymike]

Dec 24, 2020 7:56:00 GMT matureleft said:

I'd knock on a hundred doors before I'd do any telephone work. Hated that.

I have always liked doing the phone work, but the experience of Blackpool North in 2019 where I spent an evening with angry people who wanted to leave the EU put me off
Of course I was against the stupid party policy anyway, but couldn't exactly say so.

[hullenedge]

Some years back I dug out some canvass returns for the UDC...electoral registers marked with C for pledged supporters.

There was an official mark on the register against some names (mostly male) who were unfit for jury service. Assume past convictions etc.

[matureleft]

Dec 24, 2020 8:41:34 GMT Merseymike said:

Dec 24, 2020 7:56:00 GMT matureleft said:

I'd knock on a hundred doors before I'd do any telephone work. Hated that.

I have always liked doing the phone work, but the experience of Blackpool North in 2019 where I spent an evening with angry people who wanted to leave the EU put me off
Of course I was against the stupid party policy anyway, but couldn't exactly say so.

It's me. I hate conversations where I can't pick up facial, situational, body language signals. I don't even like to call friends much, let alone strangers!

[Defenestrated Fipplebox]

Dec 24, 2020 6:53:01 GMT tonyhill said:

I think it is almost impossible to generalise about 'Independents' when the local knowledge about who they were has been lost. When local government was reorganised in 1974 some former Winchester RDC councillors stood for the new City Council. Most had been Independents on the RDC but Ian Bidgood stood for the Liberals and won. Fred Peachey stood as an Independent for Micheldever and kept his seat until he retired many years later despite being an active trade unionist and clearly a Labour supporter - had he stood as Labour he would have received a derisory number of votes in that ward. The Independent councillor in Oliver's Battery, whose name escapes me, was clearly a Conservative. Fortunately over the years the small number of Independents on Winchester City Council has been eliminated and they only exist now as refugees from one of the main parties rather than being elected as such. The last three, I think, have been a Conservative convicted of theft; Kim Gottlieb before he switched to the LibDems; and currently the last Conservative in Alresford who recently got a job advising the Boomtown Festival.

In the past I would probably have agreed with you, but now I don't,I now beieve whipped party politics strangles local democracy, a few Independents, or a least Independent minds, in the mix would definitely help matters.

[Merseymike]

I was an appointed independent member of the police authority. I think all of the independent members had political views and a couple including me were party members but I'd say only one of those four let it affect his judgment.
After the end of my third year the chair lost her council seat and her replacement I had not an ounce of respect for - one of those old style trade union Labour types who oozed corruption - so knew I wouldn't be reappointed. I also resigned my Labour membership over Iraq. It was very obvious just how suspicious the new chair was of the independent members.

[tonyhill]

There are, of course, exceptions, like my good friend Jack in Fareham, but most 'Independents' are either party stooges or blithering idiots with monstrous egos who would not get through a political party's selection procedure. (That is not to say that blithering idiots with monstrous egos don't sometimes get through selection procedures).