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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Dec 23, 2020 16:27:37 GMT
How it's used depends on where you are, surely.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 23, 2020 16:29:28 GMT
The only thing canvassing is for is to discover where your votes are to get them out on the day. Nothing more. It can also be to give you an idea of where you are doing well / badly - e.g. should somewhere be detargeted? I think that's probably more the case for the LibDems give your very focused targeting. It's more something to reflect on after the election. Labour moved towards virtually engaging them in a questionnaire on the doorstep. I thought it was intrusive and unnecessary |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 23, 2020 16:31:03 GMT
The only thing canvassing is for is to discover where your votes are to get them out on the day. Nothing more. Sure - you need to know where your votes are.... but... Have you never heard of squeezing the third party vote Mike? And when the main opposition vote looks soft you apply very different tactics to when it's resilient... I don't think canvassing during an election will help you with that. You need ongoing local activity - and often Labour benefit from Tory voters opting for the third party in marginals. |
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pl
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Post by pl on Dec 23, 2020 16:39:33 GMT
Sure - you need to know where your votes are.... but... Have you never heard of squeezing the third party vote Mike? And when the main opposition vote looks soft you apply very different tactics to when it's resilient... I don't think canvassing during an election will help you with that. You need ongoing local activity - and often Labour benefit from Tory voters opting for the third party in marginals. You're quite right Mike, canvassing during elections isn't the most useful thing. Canvassing before election periods is! Same process - different time! |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 23, 2020 16:52:10 GMT
I don't think canvassing during an election will help you with that. You need ongoing local activity - and often Labour benefit from Tory voters opting for the third party in marginals. You're quite right Mike, canvassing during elections isn't the most useful thing. Canvassing before election periods is! Same process - different time! I don't think they are the same process. That's the point. |
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Post by David Ashforth on Dec 23, 2020 17:14:50 GMT
'Patricia Hollis has shown how the majority of successful women candidates before the First World War had stood as Independents, although many of them were probably "closet" Liberals. The Women's Local Government Society, founded in the 1880s, had expressly encouraged women to stand as Independents "in order to foreground their claims of gender rather than party or class, " in the hope that they would "pick up Tory women and clerical votes. " After 1918 when women no longer had one overriding cause to unite them and the growing strength of the Labour party was introducing new party political issues into local government, the truly Independent, as opposed to Liberals and Tories masquerading as members of putative "Independent" alliances, candidate was consigned more and more to the the political wilderness.' Women magistrates, ministers and municipal councillors in the West Riding of Yorkshire : 1918-1939 - Sylvia Dunkley's PhD thesis Dr Dunkley was a Liberal Democrat councillor in Ecclesall ward in Sheffield and Lord Mayor in 2011. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 23, 2020 17:20:13 GMT
You're quite right Mike, canvassing during elections isn't the most useful thing. Canvassing before election periods is! Same process - different time! I don't think they are the same process. That's the point. I agree that canvassing and year-round door-knocking are different processes. Using canvassing as nothing more than a data-gathering process is such a wasted opportunity, though. Provided the year-round work existed. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 23, 2020 17:35:23 GMT
I don't think they are the same process. That's the point. I agree that canvassing and year-round door-knocking are different processes. Using canvassing as nothing more than a data-gathering process is such a wasted opportunity, though. Provided the year-round work existed. I think voters really dislike the inquisitorial asking of how they vote. I will only ask them if they are voting for the party I am canvassing for. And I won't do knocking up at all. |
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pl
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Post by pl on Dec 23, 2020 17:45:25 GMT
I agree that canvassing and year-round door-knocking are different processes. Using canvassing as nothing more than a data-gathering process is such a wasted opportunity, though. Provided the year-round work existed. I think voters really dislike the inquisitorial asking of how they vote. I will only ask them if they are voting for the party I am canvassing for. And I won't do knocking up at all. I'll agree with you Mike on not being inquisitorial. Some of the scripts which come down from upon high are awful. There's no way I'm using them. But it always amazes me how many people volunteer who they will vote for - Lab, Con, Green even BNP voters... everyone but LDs. Not sure why.... |
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Post by tonyhill on Dec 23, 2020 17:51:55 GMT
I quite agree with Mike about knocking up. You should have motivated your supporters sufficiently by polling day to come out and vote for you without having to drag them away from Coronation Street or their supper.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 23, 2020 18:22:36 GMT
I quite agree with Mike about knocking up. You should have motivated your supporters sufficiently by polling day to come out and vote for you without having to drag them away from Coronation Street or their supper. I disagree, particularly for local elections. It's amazing how many people genuinely don't notice polling day. (And you let them finish their meal before dragging them out!) |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 23, 2020 18:36:39 GMT
I think voters really dislike the inquisitorial asking of how they vote. I will only ask them if they are voting for the party I am canvassing for. And I won't do knocking up at all. I'll agree with you Mike on not being inquisitorial. Some of the scripts which come down from upon high are awful. There's no way I'm using them. But it always amazes me how many people volunteer who they will vote for - Lab, Con, Green even BNP voters... everyone but LDs. Not sure why.... Inquisitorial, definitely not!!! There's all sorts of better ways to get the information. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Dec 23, 2020 19:51:46 GMT
I agree that canvassing and year-round door-knocking are different processes. Using canvassing as nothing more than a data-gathering process is such a wasted opportunity, though. Provided the year-round work existed. I think voters really dislike the inquisitorial asking of how they vote. I will only ask them if they are voting for the party I am canvassing for. And I won't do knocking up at all. I find knocking up is one of the least unpleasant parts of electioneering. Assuming your canvass is accurate, you will be seeing mostly "friendly faces". |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 23, 2020 21:38:45 GMT
I think voters really dislike the inquisitorial asking of how they vote. I will only ask them if they are voting for the party I am canvassing for. And I won't do knocking up at all. I find knocking up is one of the least unpleasant parts of electioneering. Assuming your canvass is accurate, you will be seeing mostly "friendly faces". I always used to run the committee room, I simply detest knocking up. Labour don't need to do it here as the votes are like North Korea elections |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 23, 2020 23:21:30 GMT
I find knocking up is one of the least unpleasant parts of electioneering. Assuming your canvass is accurate, you will be seeing mostly "friendly faces". I always used to run the committee room, I simply detest knocking up. Labour don't need to do it here as the votes are like North Korea elections I'm intrigued, what do you dislike about it? |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 23, 2020 23:26:27 GMT
I always used to run the committee room, I simply detest knocking up. Labour don't need to do it here as the votes are like North Korea elections I'm intrigued, what do you dislike about it? The noise, my dear, and the people. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 23, 2020 23:27:52 GMT
I always used to run the committee room, I simply detest knocking up. Labour don't need to do it here as the votes are like North Korea elections I'm intrigued, what do you dislike about it? Human interaction with stangers who hold power over your future. Hate it hate it hate it hate it. If I can't sit in the office 23 hours a day doing the data processing I'd sooner telephone canvass somebody else's ward for somebody else.  |
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Post by tonyhill on Dec 24, 2020 6:53:01 GMT
I think it is almost impossible to generalise about 'Independents' when the local knowledge about who they were has been lost. When local government was reorganised in 1974 some former Winchester RDC councillors stood for the new City Council. Most had been Independents on the RDC but Ian Bidgood stood for the Liberals and won. Fred Peachey stood as an Independent for Micheldever and kept his seat until he retired many years later despite being an active trade unionist and clearly a Labour supporter - had he stood as Labour he would have received a derisory number of votes in that ward. The Independent councillor in Oliver's Battery, whose name escapes me, was clearly a Conservative. Fortunately over the years the small number of Independents on Winchester City Council has been eliminated and they only exist now as refugees from one of the main parties rather than being elected as such. The last three, I think, have been a Conservative convicted of theft; Kim Gottlieb before he switched to the LibDems; and currently the last Conservative in Alresford who recently got a job advising the Boomtown Festival.
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Post by yellowperil on Dec 24, 2020 7:29:16 GMT
I am thinking back to my youth and campaigning for Labour in Yeovil in the early 50's, long before the rise of Libs/LibDems as a significant force in local government. At local election level there were no Conservatives either, and the local Tories campaigned on the basis that as Independents they were above party politics, even though they were clearly using Conservative premises and even on occasion we caught them using Conservative stationery. Of course at parliamentary level they had been used to being National Liberal and Conservative, which probably increased their sense that of course they represented everyone who mattered.
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Post by yellowperil on Dec 24, 2020 7:44:10 GMT
Coming back to@merseymike, I note: 1. He thinks the sole purpose of canvassing is to identify supporters so that they can be got out on the day 2. He doesn't like knocking up on the day. There seemed to be a contradiction between these two positions, until he reminded us that in his neck of the woods he could rely anyway on North Korean style majorities, which maybe explains it, though I don't think the North Koreans would be so squeamish about knocking up.  |
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