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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 16, 2024 17:40:10 GMT
It's £1630. I understand that is not negligible but it is absolutely worth saving for. If you cant put together £1630 for soemthing thsi vital, then maybe you are not the sort of migrant that the country is all the desperate to hang onto Right away I see what the problem is. I think that immigration policy is for the benefit of the nation. Most of this forum think that immigration policy is for the benefit of the immigrant |
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Post by London Lad on Nov 16, 2024 17:43:28 GMT
Without commenting on what the Democrats should and shouldn’t do going forward, I would just note that this was not some enormous loss. We are going to end up with a 1-2% Trump win in both the popular vote and the tipping point state - hardly an historic landslide, however you slice it. In contrast, the Democrats won in 2020 by more than 4% and the Republicans changed precisely nothing - indeed running the exact same nominee, despite him becoming an objectively worse candidate post-election. Politics doesn’t happen in stable conditions. I wouldn’t place bets on anything at this stage, but it’s perfectly possible that after 4 years of Trump the Democrats could run with an identical platform to this year and win, possibly even convincingly. Or Republicans could run a successful administration (though let’s say that initial signals are … unpromising … on that front) and hold the Presidency no matter what Democrats do. The Republicans have the Presidency, the Senate and the House - they won the popular vote and and also control the Supreme Court. I think anyone would take that as a resounding win. |
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observer
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Post by observer on Nov 16, 2024 17:57:19 GMT
Woking class V working class. I've been pointing this out for years. But how did the so-called Left get to this? Only by asking this of themselves can the Dems get back to where they used to be. There is very little sign of any self-awareness. So be it. They actually want to continue losing But you don't want the "left". You suggest two versions of the same. I'm perfectly ok with the Left. Not ok though with identity politics which is actually the new fascism. What I always wonder is how traditional leftism became so defeatist that it grasped hold - in desperation - to something that is the opposite. |
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Post by uthacalthing on Nov 16, 2024 18:03:28 GMT
I am happy to agree that "its the economy stupid". Buy why was the economy so poor?
I shall offer some possibilities.
Tens of Billions spent on Covid lockdown borrowing to fund the very act of being non productive, building a habit of being non productive
Wages depressed by undocumented immigrants, a factor in particular for male blakc and latino voters
The cost of net zero, in jobs for workers and in energy for consumers.
Massive state bureaucracy, including requirements that relate to DEI if you want a government contract.
All of these were policy choices
The secondary issues of trans, abortion, celebrity endorsements, gerontocracy, Harris, etc, all showed that the Dems did not care about the economy. They cared that it was a womans turn to be President and a boys turn to be Head Girl
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observer
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Post by observer on Nov 16, 2024 18:21:03 GMT
I look forward to RFK uncovering and publicising what really happened with coronavirus.
It'll be a shocker
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Post by observer on Nov 16, 2024 18:27:36 GMT
I am happy to agree that "its the economy stupid". Buy why was the economy so poor? I shall offer some possibilities. Tens of Billions spent on Covid lockdown borrowing to fund the very act of being non productive, building a habit of being non productive Wages depressed by undocumented immigrants, a factor in particular for male blakc and latino voters The cost of net zero, in jobs for workers and in energy for consumers. Massive state bureaucracy, including requirements that relate to DEI if you want a government contract. All of these were policy choices The secondary issues of trans, abortion, celebrity endorsements, gerontocracy, Harris, etc, all showed that the Dems did not care about the economy. They cared that it was a womans turn to be President and a boys turn to be Head Girl Absolutely, but how have they become so alienated from their base? And ended up insulting those people? Does anyone see any sign of them addressing that? |
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Post by timmullen on Nov 16, 2024 18:29:33 GMT
I am happy to agree that "its the economy stupid". Buy why was the economy so poor? I shall offer some possibilities. Tens of Billions spent on Covid lockdown borrowing to fund the very act of being non productive, building a habit of being non productive Wages depressed by undocumented immigrants, a factor in particular for male blakc and latino voters The cost of net zero, in jobs for workers and in energy for consumers. Massive state bureaucracy, including requirements that relate to DEI if you want a government contract. All of these were policy choices The secondary issues of trans, abortion, celebrity endorsements, gerontocracy, Harris, etc, all showed that the Dems did not care about the economy. They cared that it was a womans turn to be President and a boys turn to be Head Girl Absolutely, but how have they become so alienated from their base? And ended up insulting those people? Does anyone see any sign of them addressing that? Maybe a time to revisit the Democratic Leadership Council people like Governor Bill Clinton set up after the Dukakis debacle; it certainly paid dividends in 1992. |
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Post by mboy on Nov 16, 2024 18:37:01 GMT
Without commenting on what the Democrats should and shouldn’t do going forward, I would just note that this was not some enormous loss. We are going to end up with a 1-2% Trump win in both the popular vote and the tipping point state - hardly an historic landslide, however you slice it. In contrast, the Democrats won in 2020 by more than 4% and the Republicans changed precisely nothing - indeed running the exact same nominee, despite him becoming an objectively worse candidate post-election. Politics doesn’t happen in stable conditions. I wouldn’t place bets on anything at this stage, but it’s perfectly possible that after 4 years of Trump the Democrats could run with an identical platform to this year and win, possibly even convincingly. Or Republicans could run a successful administration (though let’s say that initial signals are … unpromising … on that front) and hold the Presidency no matter what Democrats do. The Republicans have the Presidency, the Senate and the House - they won the popular vote and and also control the Supreme Court. I think anyone would take that as a resounding win. "Harris won 226 electoral votes, the worst performance for a Democratic presidential ticket since that of Michael Dukakis in 1988". I think the swing was 6%? I'd be interested in how that compares to others this century. It doesn't seem to be something they talk about much. I guess 2008 was higher, but perhaps no others. Also, don't know if this had been posted yet, but Trump won first-time-voters by 13% - 56:43. That's likely the anti-woke backlash that's coming along the young, and should be a major concern for the Democrats. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 16, 2024 18:51:24 GMT
Without commenting on what the Democrats should and shouldn’t do going forward, I would just note that this was not some enormous loss. We are going to end up with a 1-2% Trump win in both the popular vote and the tipping point state - hardly an historic landslide, however you slice it. In contrast, the Democrats won in 2020 by more than 4% and the Republicans changed precisely nothing - indeed running the exact same nominee, despite him becoming an objectively worse candidate post-election. Politics doesn’t happen in stable conditions. I wouldn’t place bets on anything at this stage, but it’s perfectly possible that after 4 years of Trump the Democrats could run with an identical platform to this year and win, possibly even convincingly. Or Republicans could run a successful administration (though let’s say that initial signals are … unpromising … on that front) and hold the Presidency no matter what Democrats do. The Republicans have the Presidency, the Senate and the House - they won the popular vote and and also control the Supreme Court. I think anyone would take that as a resounding win. Err in 2020 the Dems won the Presidency (with an almost identical EV margin), the Senate, the House and the Popular vote (by over 7 million IIRC). OK, the Supreme Court is a different issue and it is not a direct election that "the people" get to participate in. Nonetheless, everyone called 2020 a wafer-thin win (correctly) and indeed, some notable politicians thought it was so close that the raise an insurrection over it! Anyone claiming therefore that the 2024 election was a resounding win is quite frankly bonkers! |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 16, 2024 19:10:44 GMT
But you don't want the "left". You suggest two versions of the same. I'm perfectly ok with the Left. Not ok though with identity politics which is actually the new fascism. What I always wonder is how traditional leftism became so defeatist that it grasped hold - in desperation - to something that is the opposite. What are you suggesting? Who are the differences - left or right? |
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Post by mboy on Nov 16, 2024 19:17:09 GMT
Nonetheless, everyone called 2020 a wafer-thin win (correctly) No they didn't, because 2020 wasn't close. |
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Post by bigfatron on Nov 16, 2024 19:25:31 GMT
I am happy to agree that "its the economy stupid". Buy why was the economy so poor? I shall offer some possibilities. Tens of Billions spent on Covid lockdown borrowing to fund the very act of being non productive, building a habit of being non productive Wages depressed by undocumented immigrants, a factor in particular for male blakc and latino voters The cost of net zero, in jobs for workers and in energy for consumers. Massive state bureaucracy, including requirements that relate to DEI if you want a government contract. All of these were policy choices The secondary issues of trans, abortion, celebrity endorsements, gerontocracy, Harris, etc, all showed that the Dems did not care about the economy. They cared that it was a womans turn to be President and a boys turn to be Head Girl Perhaps also the massive injection of cash into the US economy from Trump's unfunded tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations had an effect on inflation? Also worth noting that the growth in output of the US economy has been funnelled toward the top 1% consistently since 1980. At one stage an average US worker had seen no increase in their standard of living in twenty years, while GDP per head had risen significantly. This was/is mostly down to labour laws being amended to favour corporations and tax structures changed to favour the wealthiest over a long period. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 16, 2024 19:28:06 GMT
Nonetheless, everyone called 2020 a wafer-thin win (correctly) No they didn't, because 2020 wasn't close. Tell Trump that! Begging for 11000 votes in Georgia! He effectively lost by a couple hundred thousand votes overall. THis time Harris lost by a couple hundred thousand votes overall. |
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Post by aargauer on Nov 16, 2024 19:36:53 GMT
Nonetheless, everyone called 2020 a wafer-thin win (correctly) No they didn't, because 2020 wasn't close. TBF it was quite close. Trump needed to win 4 states he lost by 1.2% or less. I'd say 2020 was fairly tight, and 2024 (margin 2.1% in the relevant state) more comfortable but still fairly close. |
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Post by mboy on Nov 16, 2024 19:39:11 GMT
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Post by aargauer on Nov 16, 2024 19:40:35 GMT
Well 2017 was scarily tight, yes. What was the UNS swing needed for a majority. Not much. |
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Post by observer on Nov 16, 2024 19:45:45 GMT
I'm perfectly ok with the Left. Not ok though with identity politics which is actually the new fascism. What I always wonder is how traditional leftism became so defeatist that it grasped hold - in desperation - to something that is the opposite. What are you suggesting? Who are the differences - left or right? The Left used to believe in freedom of speech. Not now. They used to oppose the EU because they believed that sovereignty rested with the people. Not now. They would never have supported Davos. That's changed. They wouldn't have supported flooding the labour market and forcing down wages. The opposite is true now. They believed that all were equal, black or white, men or women. Not now...we have hate-filled wokery. The Left, in the past, knew that power properly rested with the people. Sovereignty rests with us... but now it is to be given away to globalist bodies. The Left used to believe in equality before the law. Definitely not now |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 16, 2024 19:47:33 GMT
It is somewhat naive narrative (Corbyn & 2227 votes) but it is nevertheless an indisputable fact - however unlikely - that arithmetically if those votes had shifted in just the 'right' places....
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Nov 16, 2024 19:57:03 GMT
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Post by mboy on Nov 16, 2024 20:07:49 GMT
Exactly. Another 300k votes *could* have won Trump another 5 states! |
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