CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,705
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Post by CatholicLeft on Nov 9, 2024 20:56:02 GMT
Given that he didn't do it in his first term, you'd have to be deluded to think he's going to this time.... We must all support him in this. He has a better chance this time: he now knows who is enemies are. Last time he didn't know who to appoint and actually appointed people who were working against him. He now knows who his enemies are However, he is transactional. People keep going on about David Lammy's former posts being a problem, without realising that Donald Trump isn't interested in the past - he will be as nasty as hell about somebody, until they back him. He doesn't mean most of what he says, and assumes others don't either. If he did, JD Vance wouldn't be VP-elect. Also, he will throw loyal allies under the bus if they become superfluous - look at the sad state of affairs for Rudy Giuliani. |
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Nov 9, 2024 20:56:26 GMT
An astonishing post with a ton of even more astonishing replies full of people explaining that they have cut ties with children, parents, brothers, sisters... over politics.
In all seriousness I think this is a sign of mental illness.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 9, 2024 21:00:38 GMT
There was an interesting article a while ago, I'll see if I can dig it out, but basically it said that a surprising proportion of illegal immigrants are shopped by their own (legal immigrant) relatives. This may well be so, but the families in these interviews were definitely convinced that their family members wouldnt be deported. Like I said "he's only going after the bad guys" (whatever that means and whoever determines that) I'm not surprised in a way. It's a bit like the people who think that tax should go up on high earners and are then infuriated to find out that they are the high earners! |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,726
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Post by right on Nov 9, 2024 21:01:39 GMT
Given that he didn't do it in his first term, you'd have to be deluded to think he's going to this time.... We must all support him in this. He has a better chance this time: he now knows who is enemies are. Last time he didn't know who to appoint and actually appointed people who were working against him. He now knows who his enemies are There's something to that. But Trump is so disorganised, intellectually lazy and thrives on discord in his team that this is unlikely to happen. Why on earth did he let the neocons like Bolton near him? He may not make that particular mistake about Bolton again, but he's not shown any sign that he's learned his lesson. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 9, 2024 21:02:54 GMT
We must all support him in this. He has a better chance this time: he now knows who is enemies are. Last time he didn't know who to appoint and actually appointed people who were working against him. He now knows who his enemies are However, he is transactional. People keep going on about David Lammy's former posts being a problem, without realising that Donald Trump isn't interested in the past - he will be as nasty as hell about somebody, until they back him. He doesn't mean most of what he says, and assumes others don't either. If he did, JD Vance wouldn't be VP-elect. Also, he will throw loyal allies under the bus if they become superfluous - look at the sad state of affairs for Rudy Giuliani. I broadly agree with one caveat. People who are transactional are often very good at keeping things in their back pocket to exert pressure for the next transaction. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 9, 2024 21:03:32 GMT
Reminds me of the guy on the Question Time audience about a year ago who insisted that he was on "average earnings" when he revealed he only earned £90k a year. Was genuinely astonished when the audience all laughed at him!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 9, 2024 21:12:43 GMT
Reminds me of the guy on the Question Time audience about a year ago who insisted that he was on "average earnings" when he revealed he only earned £90k a year. Was genuinely astonished when the audience all laughed at him! On a related note, I know a bloke in Manchester who has four flats and is very keen on higher tax. A mutual friend told me last week that he is now apparently telling people that Rachel Reeves has made an unfortunate error, and that once she realises it, she'll cut CGT again for Good Landlords like him. After all, it's his pension and (insert lengthy digression with the usual self-justification) I laughed. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Nov 9, 2024 21:26:27 GMT
About men? A Lot! I know for instance that men are patient, but they aren't going to be involuntarily celibate because of some bs crusade that makes no sense. Technically these women are voluntary celibate, like priests. And I’m totally fine with it. They are saving the time of campaigning against abortion. I mean their boyfriends etc. Why should they be involuntarily celibate because their gfs have decided to go mental? I think many will leave and find someone who does want to fuck. |
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,660 
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Post by Jack on Nov 9, 2024 21:31:06 GMT
An astonishing post with a ton of even more astonishing replies full of people explaining that they have cut ties with children, parents, brothers, sisters... over politics. In all seriousness I think this is a sign of mental illness. I've seen stories online of some not talking to their parents who are literally on their deathbed. The Trumpists are a cult, but so is this. |
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Post by matureleft on Nov 9, 2024 21:32:17 GMT
Those of us who have been around a while can recall lots of times when supporters of parties vaguely of the left have been told what they should do by ‘well-meaning’ critics. Those ‘lessons’ can often be backed up by articles suggesting that they will never win again.
I’d take it all in good part.
Elections are normally heavily influenced by family finances and (as I’ve said before) I’m pretty sure that higher inflation and the interest rates used to control that played a large part (and Trump’s messaging certainly stressed that). Biden threw a lot of taxpayer money on the fire (following Trump’s tax cuts) and I’m sure that lesson can be learned.
It was already evident that most countries (and among them countries where the broader left are in power) are moving toward nativist and protectionist policies. Biden certainly followed some of that path but Trump’s rhetoric was more direct and he had engineered obstructions to tighter border measures (but Biden could have pursued those when he had the legislative path clear).
I don’t doubt that some vote on cultural issues above other things. That’s always been true. For example faith adherence has long been a key driver for some. It’s fair to say that support for equal rights generally hasn’t been backed by everyone and the US has a long, troubled and violent history on aspects of this. Parties genuinely of the left are unlikely to indulge any desire to deny equality but the strategy, tactics and messages can certainly be adjusted.
But it’s worth stating the obvious. In first past the post systems in which elections are largely binary choices (not what I want, but that’s what both the USA and UK have) voters need an alternative when dissatisfied. The pendulum doesn’t swing at regular intervals but it almost inevitably happens, aided by the strong imperative for the opposition party to devise a winning formula.
I’m sure the Democrats will adjust and I’m equally sure that the Republicans haven’t found a formula for perpetual success.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Nov 9, 2024 21:34:43 GMT
Oh come on people. Brexit supporters who refuse to talk to Remainers. It's the same thing. Right wing conservatives are the most intolerant of the lot, calling the rest of us "woke" and using that as a thick concrete wall of silence.
If recent democrats are refusing to talk to relatives who supported Trump or MAGA, they deserve our respect. Love trumps hate.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Nov 9, 2024 21:36:36 GMT
An astonishing post with a ton of even more astonishing replies full of people explaining that they have cut ties with children, parents, brothers, sisters... over politics. In all seriousness I think this is a sign of mental illness. Parents don't own their children. If a child doesn't accept their parents teaching, they can reject it. |
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Jack
Reform Party
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Post by Jack on Nov 9, 2024 21:38:45 GMT
Oh come on people. Brexit supporters who refuse to talk to Remainers. It's the same thing. Right wing conservatives are the most intolerant of the lot, calling the rest of us "woke" and using that as a thick concrete wall of silence. If recent democrats are refusing to talk to relatives who supported Trump or MAGA, they deserve our respect. Love trumps hate. "Love trumps hate" he says, while endorsing cutting people out of your life purely because they vote differently. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Nov 9, 2024 21:42:00 GMT
Technically these women are voluntary celibate, like priests. And I’m totally fine with it. They are saving the time of campaigning against abortion. I mean their boyfriends etc. Why should they be involuntarily celibate because their gfs have decided to go mental? I think many will leave and find someone who does want to fuck. While some cheeky bugger might come along and say beggars can’t be choosers, personally I wouldn’t want this type of girl anyway. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Nov 9, 2024 21:46:26 GMT
An astonishing post with a ton of even more astonishing replies full of people explaining that they have cut ties with children, parents, brothers, sisters... over politics. In all seriousness I think this is a sign of mental illness. Parents don't own their children. If a child doesn't accept their parents teaching, they can reject it. Presumably that extends to LGBT dogma? |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,705
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Post by CatholicLeft on Nov 9, 2024 21:54:55 GMT
This is bizarre - I have family who have gone in fundamentally different political directions from me, but we still get on really well. We would never consider cutting each other off over our political choices - we will make it clear how stupid we think they are, but God forbid anybody from outside the family thinks their opinion is valued about our family member.
I love my crazy, dysfunctional, opinionated and annoying family - my eldest sister annoyed about my just older sister and I going over to Derry next week, for no sensible reason. She will sulk, and then we will go out for tea.
People need to grow up.
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Nov 9, 2024 21:56:56 GMT
Parents don't own their children. If a child doesn't accept their parents teaching, they can reject it. Presumably that extends to LGBT dogma? Or to the much more frequent example of parents disowning their own children because of them being gay,. |
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,660
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Post by Jack on Nov 9, 2024 22:03:25 GMT
I mean their boyfriends etc. Why should they be involuntarily celibate because their gfs have decided to go mental? I think many will leave and find someone who does want to fuck. While some cheeky bugger might come along and say beggars can’t be choosers, personally I wouldn’t want this type of girl anyway. Don't worry, my experience of women suggests that they're probably not all that keen on God-bothering weirdos who want to dictate what they do with their bodies, so you're okay. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Nov 9, 2024 22:07:34 GMT
While some cheeky bugger might come along and say beggars can’t be choosers, personally I wouldn’t want this type of girl anyway. Don't worry, my experience of women suggests that they're probably not all that keen on God-bothering weirdos who want to dictate what they do with their bodies, so you're okay. If I want romantic advice from internet losers, I’ll ask. Thank you. |
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spqr
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Post by spqr on Nov 9, 2024 22:15:12 GMT
Oh come on people. Brexit supporters who refuse to talk to Remainers. It's the same thing. Right wing conservatives are the most intolerant of the lot, calling the rest of us "woke" and using that as a thick concrete wall of silence. There's actually some evidence to suggest that "progressives" are more readily intolerant of conservatives' views than vice versa. The much-maligned former academic Noah Carl (who has experience of this at first hand) summarises some of that data here: noahcarl.medium.com/who-doesnt-want-to-hear-the-other-side-s-view-9a7cdf3ad702Note that Carl cites a YouGov poll which found that Leave voters were much more likely to say they wouldn’t mind if a relative married someone who supported Remain than the other way round. Yet here you are again, attacking the "other side" for behaving in a reprehensible way and yet never ever admitting that your own might also be guilty. And then you have the cheek to whine about "intolerance". |
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