riccimarsh
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Post by riccimarsh on Sept 11, 2024 23:04:57 GMT
The most amusing points, if you can call them that, were probably Trump’s ravings or his bizarre rant about transgender immigrant prisoners. Yes, as an immigrant myself watching, when he said that or his idea about babies being killed in Virginia I nearly choked on my cat burger. Americans have been eating hot dogs for years. But as soon as the Haitians want to do it it’s suddenly problematic??
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Post by timmullen on Sept 11, 2024 23:16:06 GMT
McCain’s son, Jimmy, has endorsed Harris already, and I wouldn’t be shocked to the core if Cindy McCain, John’s widow, followed suit after Biden nominated her as US Ambassador to UN Agencies for Food and Agriculture Programmes, from which she resigned last year to take up her current role as head of the UN World Food Programme during which she’s been much more critical of Israel’s conduct in Gaza than most Western leaders. Despite sharing the distaste for Trump that the McCain family naturally has Meghan seems to be firmly sticking to not endorsing the Democrat ticket, and has been heavily critical of the Biden administration even with the family friend history. Like the past twice sounds like she’ll be writing someone in You may be right: thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4861019-meghan-mccain-kamala-harris-donald-trump-2024/
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Post by manchesterman on Sept 12, 2024 0:18:25 GMT
Trump: I won the debate 92% - 7% Also Trump: The debate was rigged
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johng
Labour
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Post by johng on Sept 12, 2024 0:33:33 GMT
Viewing figures for the debate have been released.
60.3 million watched the debate on television according to Nielsen.
A big increase on the 47.9 million Nielsen recorded for the Biden-Trump debate in June. Though down on the 67.4 million the first 2020 debate had.
A few big caveats... - These are overnight fast results. The June debate got revised up to 51.3 million and the first debate in 2020 got revised up to 73.1 million. This number will also be revised up. - It doesn't include those who streamed the debate online or listened on the radio. The numbers who watch online are well in to the millions now so have a big impact. For reference, a quick check on just Youtube shows 7.8 million streams on WaPo, 3 million on CNN, 12.9 million on ABC, 6.8 million on NBC, 1.7 million on Fox News' YT page etc. etc. and that doesn't include those who watched on Twitter, ABC/ news network's own websites etc. - They obviously don't include online clips/ news broadcast clips/ soundbites etc.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 12, 2024 0:55:11 GMT
This was broken by the KFile on Erin Burnett's program before the debate. A half decent Trump team would have had him emphasise this batshit viewpoint and hammer it home. Seriously, taxpayer funded gender transition for illegals? In other words, taking money from Americans who are struggling to feed their children, and giving it to illegal immigrants to change their genitalia. Nobody could seriously and credibly defend that, and Harris would have struggled. Overall, the debate highlighted just how much it's a travesty that this is the choice for Americans. A candidate forced upon the Democratic Party by a corrupt and aloof boomer establishment that refuses to retire, and a quasi-religious cult that has seized the GOP. Harris is the best option for democracy's sake, but she could be taken apart so easily. Thank the Lord that Trump is too egotistical for that. One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so.
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Post by timmullen on Sept 12, 2024 1:03:16 GMT
One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so. She might also have mentioned that he’s started arriving so late at rallies, apparently two hours plus at one in Wisconsin, that people are actually leaving before he gets there.
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johng
Labour
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Post by johng on Sept 12, 2024 1:24:28 GMT
One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so.
It's the difference between a well prepared and focused candidate versus an unprepared narcissistic rambler.
Harris knows she has many weaknesses.
She knew a long time spent on immigration during the debate wouldn't be great for her. But she also knew Trump couldn't help but go on about crowd sizes if she baited him when immigration came around despite this is one of Harris' weakest areas. And you're right. People do start leaving. That's not surprising though given they go on and on and he rambles on about the same old points at every event.
It wasn't just that though.
She knew she was vulnerable on Ukraine. The line on Polish Americans was obviously well-prepared/ rehearsed, but it worked. Not only was she able to hit back at Trump, but she is also targeting Polish-Americans who are significant minorities in PA, MI and WI. The eaten for lunch line was similar. It makes Trump look weak and distracted him from more important points/ made him look angry.
She knew she was weaker on Afghanistan than Trump. The Taliban line was a zinger.
Time and time again, Harris managed to distract Trump which only worked to her advantaged.
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riccimarsh
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Post by riccimarsh on Sept 12, 2024 1:50:24 GMT
One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so.
It's the difference between a well prepared and focused candidate versus an unprepared narcissistic rambler.
Harris knows she has many weaknesses.
She knew a long time spent on immigration during the debate wouldn't be great for her. But she also knew Trump couldn't help but go on about crowd sizes if she baited him when immigration came around despite this is one of Harris' weakest areas. And you're right. People do start leaving. That's not surprising though given they go on and on and he rambles on about the same old points at every event.
It wasn't just that though.
She knew she was vulnerable on Ukraine. The line on Polish Americans was obviously well-prepared/ rehearsed, but it worked. Not only was she able to hit back at Trump, but she is also targeting Polish-Americans who are significant minorities in PA, MI and WI. The eaten for lunch line was similar. It makes Trump look weak and distracted him from more important points/ made him look angry.
She knew she was weaker on Afghanistan than Trump. The Taliban line was a zinger.
Time and time again, Harris managed to distract Trump which only worked to her advantaged.
Harris did very well at taking potential weaknesses for herself and turning them into attacks on Trump. To me that shows that she had prepared well, anticipating such points and figuring out how to deflect them and even use them to her advantage. An impressive and effective debating strategy. Trump himself just showed that he is utterly incapable of undertaking the same level of preparation, and likewise could not avoid responding to the most obvious of jibes from Harris. His response to the crowd size comment was just embarrassing. Let us not forget though that Hillary Clinton was largely considered to have “won” all three debates in 2016. What happened last night was encouraging for Harris, but nothing more. There is still a long way to go, and anything can and will happen between now and January 20th.
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Post by sanders on Sept 12, 2024 5:07:22 GMT
One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so.
It's the difference between a well prepared and focused candidate versus an unprepared narcissistic rambler.
Harris knows she has many weaknesses.
She knew a long time spent on immigration during the debate wouldn't be great for her. But she also knew Trump couldn't help but go on about crowd sizes if she baited him when immigration came around despite this is one of Harris' weakest areas. And you're right. People do start leaving. That's not surprising though given they go on and on and he rambles on about the same old points at every event.
It wasn't just that though.
She knew she was vulnerable on Ukraine. The line on Polish Americans was obviously well-prepared/ rehearsed, but it worked. Not only was she able to hit back at Trump, but she is also targeting Polish-Americans who are significant minorities in PA, MI and WI. The eaten for lunch line was similar. It makes Trump look weak and distracted him from more important points/ made him look angry.
She knew she was weaker on Afghanistan than Trump. The Taliban line was a zinger.
Time and time again, Harris managed to distract Trump which only worked to her advantaged.
Harris learned a lot from her shellacking in the 2020 Democratic primary (dropping out before New Hamsphire). Trump learned nothing from his defeat in 2020.
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Post by batman on Sept 12, 2024 5:34:08 GMT
You can’t learn from a defeat if you refuse to accept it was a defeat.
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Post by sanders on Sept 12, 2024 5:41:46 GMT
You can’t learn from a defeat if you refuse to accept it was a defeat. He's such a fucking narcissist, isn't he? Excuse my French, but it's deafening. The economic populism was initially appealing. It's all lies - 200,000 jobs lost. Outsourcing got worse under Donald Trump. Trump is just Saudi Arabia's plaything. He's so corrupted it's true, honestly. I thought that wouldn't happen once. He seems too wealthy for that. He's going to get pummelled, Inshallah.
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Post by stb12 on Sept 12, 2024 7:11:49 GMT
Debates certainly don’t suit him, even the one that he ‘won’ in June really just amounted more to Biden showing that he was no longer capable of the job due to decline
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Post by sanders on Sept 12, 2024 7:22:15 GMT
Debates certainly don’t suit him, even the one that he ‘won’ in June really just amounted more to Biden showing that he was no longer capable of the job due to decline He must be ruing having an early debate with Biden, since he was doing better against him in polls (Trump led in Virginia at one point). He would surely rather Biden had been confirmed as nominee before any debates took place. I can't believe Trump has agreed to what have been (taken together) two pretty awful outings for him. Instrumentally, the first one got rid of Biden. Intrinsically, the second one was a clusterfuck of biblical proportions, and that's pretty universally acknowledged.
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Post by stb12 on Sept 12, 2024 7:51:25 GMT
Debates certainly don’t suit him, even the one that he ‘won’ in June really just amounted more to Biden showing that he was no longer capable of the job due to decline He must be ruing having an early debate with Biden, since he was doing better against him in polls (Trump led in Virginia at one point). He would surely rather Biden had been confirmed as nominee before any debates took place. I can't believe Trump has agreed to what have been (taken together) two pretty awful outings for him. Instrumentally, the first one got rid of Biden. Intrinsically, the second one was a clusterfuck of biblical proportions, and that's pretty universally acknowledged. The Biden camp must have regrets on that as well as a debate that early in the year was highly unusual, they’re usually always September-October time While there would no doubt still have been some ongoing internal concerns about his age and mental state I don’t see how the momentum to actually get him to drop out could have been built up without that debate, and if it had happened yesterday then it would surely have been too late to change?
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
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Post by Tony Otim on Sept 12, 2024 8:14:24 GMT
He must be ruing having an early debate with Biden, since he was doing better against him in polls (Trump led in Virginia at one point). He would surely rather Biden had been confirmed as nominee before any debates took place. I can't believe Trump has agreed to what have been (taken together) two pretty awful outings for him. Instrumentally, the first one got rid of Biden. Intrinsically, the second one was a clusterfuck of biblical proportions, and that's pretty universally acknowledged. The Biden camp must have regrets on that as well as a debate that early in the year was highly unusual, they’re usually always September-October time Although you would hope, with hindsight, that the Biden camp would prefer the possibility of a Harris presidency to the certainty of a Trump one, which would have been the only outcome if Biden fell apart in a September debate.
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Post by stb12 on Sept 12, 2024 8:21:48 GMT
The Biden camp must have regrets on that as well as a debate that early in the year was highly unusual, they’re usually always September-October time Although you would hope, with hindsight, that the Biden camp would prefer the possibility of a Harris presidency to the certainty of a Trump one, which would have been the only outcome if Biden fell apart in a September debate. Well you would think so on some levels, but as much as Biden is doing the team player role very well he clearly wanted to continue hence how it took so much political and donor pressure to drop outright. And there will be people in the party immensely loyal to him personally who will feel he was hard done by, albeit it’s probably being kept quiet for the sake of unity
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r34t
Non-Aligned
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Post by r34t on Sept 12, 2024 8:32:47 GMT
The Biden camp must have regrets on that as well as a debate that early in the year was highly unusual, they’re usually always September-October time Although you would hope, with hindsight, that the Biden camp would prefer the possibility of a Harris presidency to the certainty of a Trump one, which would have been the only outcome if Biden fell apart in a September debate. You have the oldest candidate on record, there are concerns about his mental acuity, you have an abnormally early debate which highlights those concerns with time to change things. An unusual set of coincidences.
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Post by johnloony on Sept 12, 2024 9:03:21 GMT
One more thing, I will say that the crowd size thing from Harris was smart. It's a real phenomenon that people are leaving his rallies early, he will now notice that and it will drive him crazy. I wouldn't put it past him to bar people leaving early or start engaging in outbursts at those doing so. She might also have mentioned that he’s started arriving so late at rallies, apparently two hours plus at one in Wisconsin, that people are actually leaving before he gets there. Hitler arrived at rallies late in order to get people more excited with waiting.
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Post by sanders on Sept 12, 2024 11:04:16 GMT
The Tar Heel state's fairly rural. Not one urban centre dominating it. Maricopa County dominates Arizona's elections, understandably. Guilford, Wake, Mecklenburg, Buncombe etc etc. None of them dominate North Carolina elections. Still, it's becoming more urban//suburban. I think it's changed enough now. The Research Triangle has gained population. Lots of transplants moving to cities.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 12, 2024 11:20:48 GMT
You can’t learn from a defeat if you refuse to accept it was a defeat. That applies to the other night's debate as well - Trump appears to genuinely believe that he won it "bigly".
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