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Post by stb12 on Aug 6, 2024 13:49:46 GMT
Seems like the safe bet though Although depending on the results in Pennsylvania and other swing rust belt states there will inevitably be some talk about Shapiro being a missed opportunity if they’re lost by Harris
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,131
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Post by mboy on Aug 6, 2024 13:51:46 GMT
^ Yes. To me this looks like a safe choice for the party faithful, rather than a bold choice to nail down a crucial state. Shame.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 6, 2024 13:55:38 GMT
Weak pick. Walz is Tim Kaine 2.0, he will be a solid VP if elected but he brings nothing to the table in terms of winning votes. If Harris narrowly loses this because she doesn't carry PA she will have thrown it away. Even if she didn't want Shapiro then Mark Kelly would have been a much better pick.
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Post by stb12 on Aug 6, 2024 13:59:43 GMT
^ Yes. To me this looks like a safe choice for the party faithful, rather than a bold choice to nail down a crucial state. Shame. To be fair to her it’s not straight forward either way, turn out from those who would be considered the more progressive (for want of a better phrase) could be important as well considering the fine margins involved Clearly whether Shapiro and the Israel issue really would have seen a significant number stay at home or vote for a minor party/independent is where the matter of judgement comes in
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Post by sanders on Aug 6, 2024 14:04:07 GMT
Seen elsewhere. Previously, Pence was there to look like a moderating influence on Trump. Now, Trump looks like he is there to be a moderating influence on Vance. Trump was talked into choosing Vance by his sons and Elon Musk I believe. The pick was made on the assumption that Biden would be Trump’s opponent in November. Shit show.
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r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,115
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Post by r34t on Aug 6, 2024 14:07:50 GMT
Superb choice, will really contribute to her victory
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r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,115
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Post by r34t on Aug 6, 2024 14:08:31 GMT
Rubbish choice, it will be one of the reasons she will lose
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Aug 6, 2024 14:09:48 GMT
I reserve the right to quote myself in mid-November, to illustrate my wisdom & foresight
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Post by stb12 on Aug 6, 2024 14:14:22 GMT
I reserve the right to quote myself in mid-November, to illustrate my wisdom & foresight Banned until after November
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r34t
Non-Aligned
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Post by r34t on Aug 6, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
I reserve the right to quote myself in mid-November, to illustrate my wisdom & foresight Banned until after November
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 6, 2024 14:30:31 GMT
Sorry to clarify what meant, Shapiro clearly would be a vote winner particularly in Penn State, etc. however, his politics might risk exposing division in the leadership.
Waltz though who clearly is less likely to expose those weaknesses might not win over as many voters
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Post by sanders on Aug 6, 2024 14:36:48 GMT
Many of the more progressive Democrats took issue with Shapiro’s response to pro-Palestine protestors - allegedly he compared them to the Ku Klux Klan. It’s certainly a view!
I think Walz is the first Minnesotan politician on the ticket since since Mondale. For a while, Democrats ran a lot of northerners who lost heavily like Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis. Kerry didn’t lose badly of course.
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Post by timmullen on Aug 6, 2024 14:44:14 GMT
Sorry to clarify what meant, Shapiro clearly would be a vote winner particularly in Penn State, etc. however, his politics might risk exposing division in the leadership. Waltz though who clearly is less likely to expose those weaknesses might not win over as many voters I think Walz (no T by the way) makes it harder for Republicans to credibly argue it’s an ultra left wing ticket - one potential negative for Walz on the Progressive wing that may help amongst non-MAGA Republicans is that for most of his House elections he was endorsed by the NRA - so I have always suspected that he would appeal to moderate women whom Biden was losing support amongst, and is a good counterbalance amongst the anti-Trump Republicans who will see him as a moderate, common sense influence. He may also reassure the small-ish, but in some areas of Northern Virginia for example, important bloc for whom defence and national security are important
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Post by sanders on Aug 6, 2024 14:52:45 GMT
Sorry to clarify what meant, Shapiro clearly would be a vote winner particularly in Penn State, etc. however, his politics might risk exposing division in the leadership. Waltz though who clearly is less likely to expose those weaknesses might not win over as many voters I think Walz (no T by the way) makes it harder for Republicans to credibly argue it’s an ultra left wing ticket - one potential negative for Walz on the Progressive wing that may help amongst non-MAGA Republicans is that for most of his House elections he was endorsed by the NRA - so I have always suspected that he would appeal to moderate women whom Biden was losing support amongst, and is a good counterbalance amongst the anti-Trump Republicans who will see him as a moderate, common sense influence. He may also reassure the small-ish, but in some areas of Northern Virginia for example, important bloc for whom defence and national security are important Yes. There are some parallels with Collin Peterson and I think if Walz stayed in the House he would’ve lost in 2020.
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 6, 2024 15:08:50 GMT
Sorry to clarify what meant, Shapiro clearly would be a vote winner particularly in Penn State, etc. however, his politics might risk exposing division in the leadership. Waltz though who clearly is less likely to expose those weaknesses might not win over as many voters I think Walz (no T by the way) makes it harder for Republicans to credibly argue it’s an ultra left wing ticket - one potential negative for Walz on the Progressive wing that may help amongst non-MAGA Republicans is that for most of his House elections he was endorsed by the NRA - so I have always suspected that he would appeal to moderate women whom Biden was losing support amongst, and is a good counterbalance amongst the anti-Trump Republicans who will see him as a moderate, common sense influence. He may also reassure the small-ish, but in some areas of Northern Virginia for example, important bloc for whom defence and national security are important I'm not really convinced: a) republicans will find it hard to call the Dems hard left as they'll do it with ease even if Trump was the Dem candidate b) the Dems could pick someone that republicans wouldn't call hard left
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 6, 2024 15:14:36 GMT
Sorry to clarify what meant, Shapiro clearly would be a vote winner particularly in Penn State, etc. however, his politics might risk exposing division in the leadership. Waltz though who clearly is less likely to expose those weaknesses might not win over as many voters I think Walz (no T by the way) makes it harder for Republicans to credibly argue it’s an ultra left wing ticket - one potential negative for Walz on the Progressive wing that may help amongst non-MAGA Republicans is that for most of his House elections he was endorsed by the NRA - so I have always suspected that he would appeal to moderate women whom Biden was losing support amongst, and is a good counterbalance amongst the anti-Trump Republicans who will see him as a moderate, common sense influence. He may also reassure the small-ish, but in some areas of Northern Virginia for example, important bloc for whom defence and national security are important Walz ran as a moderate in his House days but moved to the left when he ran for Governor and has continued to move in that direction. In his 2022 re-election he performed pretty much as a generic Minnesota Democrat would have and lost his old house district by 7 points.
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graham
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Post by graham on Aug 6, 2024 15:20:31 GMT
Many of the more progressive Democrats took issue with Shapiro’s response to pro-Palestine protestors - allegedly he compared them to the Ku Klux Klan. It’s certainly a view! I think Walz is the first Minnesotan politician on the ticket since since Mondale. For a while, Democrats ran a lot of northerners who lost heavily like Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis. Kerry didn’t lose badly of course. Humphrey actually came close to beating Nixon in the popular vote in 1968 - being just 0.7% behind.
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 6, 2024 15:37:38 GMT
Many of the more progressive Democrats took issue with Shapiro’s response to pro-Palestine protestors - allegedly he compared them to the Ku Klux Klan. It’s certainly a view! I think Walz is the first Minnesotan politician on the ticket since since Mondale. For a while, Democrats ran a lot of northerners who lost heavily like Humphrey, McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis. Kerry didn’t lose badly of course. Humphrey actually came close to beating Nixon in the popular vote in 1968 - being just 0.7% behind. Al Gore and Hillary Clinton won the popular vote...
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 6, 2024 16:30:47 GMT
Many of the more progressive Democrats took issue with Shapiro’s response to pro-Palestine protestors - allegedly he compared them to the Ku Klux Klan. It’s certainly a view! Shapiro took a very similar line on the pro-Palestine protestors as most mainstream Democrats. I simply can't imagine why the progressive left have signalled him out for particular criticism.
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Post by sanders on Aug 6, 2024 18:55:55 GMT
Many of the more progressive Democrats took issue with Shapiro’s response to pro-Palestine protestors - allegedly he compared them to the Ku Klux Klan. It’s certainly a view! Shapiro took a very similar line on the pro-Palestine protestors as most mainstream Democrats. I simply can't imagine why the progressive left have signalled him out for particular criticism. Who else compared them to the KKK? No one. Just Shapiro.
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