aargauer
Conservative
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Post by aargauer on Jul 22, 2024 12:50:31 GMT
The right: "Biden is such a doddering old fool who dosent even know what day it is. He can't be trusted to run a bath, let alone with the nuclear codes. He should withdraw his intention to run as he isnt fit for office!" *Biden withdraws* The right: "You can't force that guy out of running for office. that's not democratic"  "the right" is not some form of single mind, it compromises many people with a wide range of views. Biden was unfit to run and shouldn't have run in the first place. I have no problem with him being forced out, on the contrary I had a fair few drinks last night to celebrate the political demise of the loathsome old bastard. What I object to is people claiming that they are trying to save democracy while engaging in such an obviously undemocratic act. I agree with "the right" above. The cause of this was a complete lack of honesty about Biden's state, and trying to have highly controlled events to hide his rapid decline. He should not have ran, people should not have voted for him, but when he did and was voted for, he shouldn't have been hounded out either. And when he was hounded out, if he is effectively admitting not being up to running for president, why is he up to actually doing the job for 6 more months? We have all seen the man is not up to it. He is vague and incoherent and can barely put two sentences together. It's a total mess. |
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 22, 2024 12:53:04 GMT
"the right" is not some form of single mind, it compromises many people with a wide range of views. Biden was unfit to run and shouldn't have run in the first place. I have no problem with him being forced out, on the contrary I had a fair few drinks last night to celebrate the political demise of the loathsome old bastard. What I object to is people claiming that they are trying to save democracy while engaging in such an obviously undemocratic act. I agree with "the right" above. The cause of this was a complete lack of honesty about Biden's state, and trying to have highly controlled events to hide his rapid decline. He should not have ran, people should not have voted for him, but when he did and was voted for, he shouldn't have been hounded out either. Schrödinger’s candidate: he shouldn’t be running, but he shouldn’t not be running. |
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Post by observer on Jul 22, 2024 12:54:53 GMT
Do the mainstream liberal US media refer, in their regular news reporting (not in opinion columns) to Mr Trump as 'lying'? (For instance, about the result of the 2020 election.)
In the UK, the Guardian routinely does this and I find it highly irritating. I want my news sources simply to report what a politician is saying. It's not their job to to tell me whether he is lying. I'll decide that for myself, thank you very much.
It's a deeply worrying example of the way that news sources that used to claim to be objective, and I think did genuinely strive to achieve that, have allowed themselves to fall into naked partisanship in recent years. The stubborn protection of Mr Biden was another example, until the extent of his frailty became undeniable.
I am perplexed by this idea that the media have been “protecting” Biden. The media have been absolutely hammering him on his age for a long time now, much more so than Trump. The New York Times have had over 80 articles in the last month that are wholly or largely focussed on Biden’s age and suitability to run. The media and large donors have had a bigger role in pushing out Biden than anyone. A majority of grassroots voters (and the likes of Bernie/AOC) wanted to keep him. Until the last month the mainstream media has ignored Biden's poor health. The new media (much smaller but growing strongly) has reported it. What has struck me has been how the old media has actually covered up for Biden. For years now they have been editing his words into very small clips which appear to show him looking lucid and dynamic. The shortness of the clips would have taken in the gullible. Even Biden's campaigning from his basement, allegedly due to coronavirus, was never questioned which any journalist worth his salt would have done |
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Post by timmullen on Jul 22, 2024 12:58:48 GMT
That would need a constitutional amendment which is very difficult to get through hence how there’s been so few and none since 1992. I realise there are other concerns going about that Trump will find other methods and ways to just do whatever he wants but I’m trying to avoid getting into the merits or otherwise of those theories I think you're right that, as it stands, he wont have the numbers in Congress to force Constitutional changes through. But you can bet your life he will be explored every nook and cranny and have the best constitutional lawyers working night and day to find a way. There’s a slightly alternative way which partly bypasses Congress, 34 States enact legislation requesting a Constitutional Convention under Article V of the Constitution; efforts have been underway for many years in order to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment (24 States so far) and a whole route and branch limit on the power of Congress (19 States) and on the other side of the spectrum to abolish the Electoral College and elect the President by popular vote (numbers vary as some States have withdrawn after a change of governance). It was apparently the threat of such a Convention that persuaded Senators to agree to the Seventh Amendment providing for the direct election of Senators. The brake however is that even if the 34 States submit a request and a Convention is held, anything proposed still has to go through the usual ratification procedure, so it’s almost impossible to see how it could be done to enable Trump to serve a third term given the almost impossibility of getting 38 States to ratify it. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 22, 2024 13:18:08 GMT
Biden and Harris are heathens. Don’t you define about 98% of people as heathens, or heretics, or satanic, or similar? As a honest and self-declared Pagan following some of the old ways and immersed in a variant of science-based Animism , I am unsure what Heathen is supposed to cover, but have always regarded is as a common form of slur and disparagement employed by some Christians to demean non-Christians. |
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 22, 2024 13:20:41 GMT
I am perplexed by this idea that the media have been “protecting” Biden. The media have been absolutely hammering him on his age for a long time now, much more so than Trump. The New York Times have had over 80 articles in the last month that are wholly or largely focussed on Biden’s age and suitability to run. The media and large donors have had a bigger role in pushing out Biden than anyone. A majority of grassroots voters (and the likes of Bernie/AOC) wanted to keep him. Until the last month the mainstream media has ignored Biden's poor health. The new media (much smaller but growing strongly) has reported it. What has struck me has been how the old media has actually covered up for Biden. For years now they have been editing his words into very small clips which appear to show him looking lucid and dynamic. The shortness of the clips would have taken in the gullible. Even Biden's campaigning from his basement, allegedly due to coronavirus, was never questioned which any journalist worth his salt would have done Fox News, the biggest news channel in the US, have been accusing Biden of senility since before 2020. They have not been covering up for him. And avoiding mass rallies was “allegedly” due to coronavirus?? It may have helped Biden, but it was definitely due to coronavirus. Do you remember the lockdowns here and in the US over summer 2020?? They were severe (however misguided you and I might think they were). Trump ignored the guidance, did hold big rallies, and the likes of Herman Cain died because of them. |
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r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,166
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Post by r34t on Jul 22, 2024 13:24:43 GMT
The candidate withdrew after being selected. It happens. It's not a big deal. What do you expect? Everyone to say "No, you're not *allowed* to withdraw, Joe"? This juvenile line of attack is beneath you tbh. This would be valid if he withdrew of his own choice but not when he was essentially forced out. Are we talking about the original Reform candidate for Clacton now ?  |
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Post by Andrew_S on Jul 22, 2024 13:34:43 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 22, 2024 13:37:36 GMT
On a side note it would be nice if any of this interesting situation could be discussed without everyone sounding so partisan but no doubt that’s wishful thinking on my part It would be ideal if certain posters could just use the PM function. Not just on this thread. |
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,660 
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Post by Jack on Jul 22, 2024 13:40:24 GMT
On a side note it would be nice if any of this interesting situation could be discussed without everyone sounding so partisan but no doubt that’s wishful thinking on my part It would be ideal if certain posters could just use the PM function. Not just on this thread. What does the Prime Minister function do? |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 22, 2024 13:44:47 GMT
The important thing is beating and destroying Project 2025. Too much groundwork has been prepared already, from pro-Trump decisions in the Supreme Court, the Florida case being thrown out by a Trump appointee, and the numerous abortion cases across the country. It's last chance time to rescue the country from total collapse under right wing extremists My heart wanted Biden to do it. It was looking increasingly difficult. Increasingly hard. Now they have to get Harris over the line. That's all that matters. Project 2025 is what they say to the thick kids to get them to support Democrats Wow! It seems to have worked well. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 22, 2024 13:45:36 GMT
There was a suggestion the other day that the Trump campaign had done little to wargame opposing a candidate other than Biden. This statement seems to fit that. Regardless of Harris's merits or otherwise, this could come back to haunt them. She's all over the news for a week, they've got bugger all on her. And by the time they have, she's already had at least of coverage featuring a fairly united Democratic Party. For the same reasons, the Dems would be advised to pick a VP candidate in good order. |
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Post by timmullen on Jul 22, 2024 13:48:49 GMT
The candidate withdrew after being selected. It happens. It's not a big deal. What do you expect? Everyone to say "No, you're not *allowed* to withdraw, Joe"? This juvenile line of attack is beneath you tbh. This would be valid if he withdrew of his own choice but not when he was essentially forced out. But this is predicated on him being forced out; one thing that struck me is there’s no date set for his TV address, I’d have expected it immediately, and also it came hours after his physician said he continued to experience Covid symptoms, signaling they’re more severe than his previous two positive tests when he’s exited isolation after the minimum period - maybe he’s actually realised himself he’s too old to adequately campaign. Even so being “forced out” is nothing new - Harry Truman indicated he would run again in 1952 and only changed his mind when half a dozen people declined his invitation to be his running mate, Johnson initially wanted to tough out his Vietnam critics in 1968 but realised he didn’t have a path to nomination at the Convention, and Nixon took two years to prise out and if Ford hadn’t agreed to a Presidential pardon would likely have fought his way to being convicted in an impeachment trial in the Senate. |
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Smartie
Labour
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Posts: 834
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Post by Smartie on Jul 22, 2024 13:49:25 GMT
In Coolidge’s day, you could run for president as many times as you liked. But you didn't, hard to underestimate the shock of what FDR did It was wartime and it was an exception |
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Smartie
Labour
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Post by Smartie on Jul 22, 2024 13:51:12 GMT
There's going to be a wide band of expectation about Kamala, most of it will be informed by prior views on Trump On paper she should be be a strong candidate but she does do badly in Primaries and the reluctance to choose her wasn't racism and sexism, it was fear of her performance She's an unknown quantity and so on balance it's fair to say this is a blow to Trump in that he was a Biden destroying machine, but the victory dances for the Democrats seem to be premature Except he lost to Biden the only time he played him. |
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Post by thirdchill on Jul 22, 2024 14:07:30 GMT
Regardless of Harris's merits or otherwise, this could come back to haunt them. She's all over the news for a week, they've got bugger all on her. And by the time they have, she's already had at least of coverage featuring a fairly united Democratic Party. For the same reasons, the Dems would be advised to pick a VP candidate in good order. I would stongly advise the Democrat campaign that if they do pick Harris that they take part in as few one on one debates with Trump as possible, and instead do a lot more campaigning in those areas that are necessary. One of the weaknesses of Harris is that she is really not very good in that sort of debate environment. She doesn't think very quickly on her feet and is prone to repeating the same lines ad nauseum (and a number of these lines do come across as word salad). I agree with a VP pick, get a good VP pick done quickly (a good VP from a Rust Belt state would definitely be beneficial to Harris). She probably has more chance than Biden at the current time but am still not 100% sure she'd beat Trump where it matters. |
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Post by observer on Jul 22, 2024 14:20:05 GMT
Until the last month the mainstream media has ignored Biden's poor health. The new media (much smaller but growing strongly) has reported it. What has struck me has been how the old media has actually covered up for Biden. For years now they have been editing his words into very small clips which appear to show him looking lucid and dynamic. The shortness of the clips would have taken in the gullible. Even Biden's campaigning from his basement, allegedly due to coronavirus, was never questioned which any journalist worth his salt would have done Fox News, the biggest news channel in the US, have been accusing Biden of senility since before 2020. They have not been covering up for him. And avoiding mass rallies was “allegedly” due to coronavirus?? It may have helped Biden, but it was definitely due to coronavirus. Do you remember the lockdowns here and in the US over summer 2020?? They were severe (however misguided you and I might think they were). Trump ignored the guidance, did hold big rallies, and the likes of Herman Caine died because of them. The US lockdowns were intermittent as they were in the UK. Biden pretended he was just being particularly cautious about coronavirus |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 22, 2024 14:46:52 GMT
Whitmer and Pritzker have endorsed Harris.
Are there any Democratic governors yet to comment?
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 22, 2024 15:10:49 GMT
There was a suggestion the other day that the Trump campaign had done little to wargame opposing a candidate other than Biden. This statement seems to fit that. Regardless of Harris's merits or otherwise, this could come back to haunt them. She's all over the news for a week, they've got bugger all on her. And by the time they have, she's already had at least of coverage featuring a fairly united Democratic Party. For the same reasons, the Dems would be advised to pick a VP candidate in good order. Other attack lines seem to be that she laughs in a weird manner and that she doesn’t have children (although she is step-mother to her husbands two children). |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,726
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Post by right on Jul 22, 2024 15:15:14 GMT
But political prosecutions of the main opposition candidate on novel criminal charges is fine because it protects democracy? Unprecedented situations might require novel criminal charges, no?? There was never a President who tried to over-turn an election before, so it’s not surprising that such a thing had never previously been charged. And mis-handling of classified information is a hardly a novel charge. This was campaign finance, so the already sinister argument doesn't apply |
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