right
Conservative
Posts: 18,726
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Post by right on Jul 22, 2024 9:33:15 GMT
For those looking for bad news, this suggests the Biden family wasn't thinking about his country but his ratings. For the good news, if they were checking his ratings they'd have presumably checked Kamala's and that would have been in her favour. They would care about that, right? That's not entirely fair. I regard the defeat of Trump as a prerequisite for maintaining democracy & avoiding the creation of a tyranny in the US. I would not put it past Trump to attempt to change the constitution so that he can run for a 3rd term, and he has spoken about locking up political opponents. I do not trust the Supreme Court or other traditional checks & balances to thwart some of his more extreme political desires. Biden & most Democrats surely feel the same, so the only way to avoid this is a Democratic victory in the election. If he feels that he himself can't achieve that as a candidate, then by withdrawing he is thinking about the country as well as his ratings. But political prosecutions of the main opposition candidate on novel criminal charges is fine because it protects democracy? |
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Post by adlai52 on Jul 22, 2024 9:34:42 GMT
You can already see a lot of helpful media buzz around the switch, combined with a successful convention you would expect it to give the Dems a strong lift in the polls. But... some of this is froth and the same factors that hampered Biden are likely to hamper Harris. I'm still not convinced that after the initial splash she is a sufficiently strong candidate to beat Trump. She probably loses ground on Biden in the MidWest and claws in back in the South West and Georgia - puts states like AZ and GA back in play at a stretch, but she probably doesn't improve on Biden in PA and WI. What this probably does do is scotch any Trump talk about expanding the map on the back of voters concerns around Biden's ability to do the job of president, back to a narrow map for the time being I suspect? I thought this until I watched a video this morning on head to head polling so far which is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It looks very much like Georgia, Arizona and Nevada are gone even with her as the candidate. However, again with all the caveats, she was leading in Michigan and Penn State. The polling in AZ and NV is strange as they are both states when the Dems are running strongly in the Senate races, but the national ticket is trailing. You would expect there to be some kind of bounce, but I think that the same fundamentals that were hurting Biden will impact Harris too - need a few weeks for the impact of her switch to the top of the ticket and the DNC to shake out - in the meantime we can speculate! |
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cathyc
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,058
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Post by cathyc on Jul 22, 2024 9:35:27 GMT
When Joe Biden wakes up this morning, will he remember that he has withdrawn? Do you think Trump will remember (or care) that Biden has withdrawn? |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,345 
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Post by stb12 on Jul 22, 2024 9:41:15 GMT
I thought this until I watched a video this morning on head to head polling so far which is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It looks very much like Georgia, Arizona and Nevada are gone even with her as the candidate. However, again with all the caveats, she was leading in Michigan and Penn State. The polling in AZ and NV is strange as they are both states when the Dems are running strongly in the Senate races, but the national ticket is trailing. You would expect there to be some kind of bounce, but I think that the same fundamentals that were hurting Biden will impact Harris too - need a few weeks for the impact of her switch to the top of the ticket and the DNC to shake out - in the meantime we can speculate! Pretty much all the Dem Senate incumbents up for re-election in red and swing states are outpolling the Presidential ticket |
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 22, 2024 9:50:36 GMT
When Joe Biden wakes up this morning, will he remember that he has withdrawn? He may have to check with Vice President Trump. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 22, 2024 10:02:21 GMT
When Joe Biden wakes up this morning, will he remember that he has withdrawn? Almost certainly. |
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Post by observer on Jul 22, 2024 10:27:44 GMT
One of the most disturbing things about the Biden presidency has been the willingness of the media to protect Biden.
How do they rebuild their reputation, as organisations and individuals?
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 22, 2024 10:44:25 GMT
I regard the defeat of Trump as a prerequisite for maintaining democracy To bad that you just cheered on the destruction of democracy with the ousting of the person who overwhelming won the Democratic Primary in every single state. Harris as the nominee has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. |
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mboy
Liberal
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Posts: 23,601
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Post by mboy on Jul 22, 2024 10:44:45 GMT
One of the most disturbing things about the Biden presidency has been the willingness of the media to protect Biden. How do they rebuild their reputation, as organisations and individuals? The US media has no reputation to rebuild, and no part of that media has any intention of trying. The left-wing media trashed its reputation long before it dismissed Biden's health decline, and in much worse ways (e.g. calling the most likely way Covid arose and killed 20 million people, a "racist conspiracy theory", and being apologists for political violence in 2020). The right-wing media burned its reputation by indulging an actual conspiracy theory that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump (and being apologists for political violence in 2021). Don't pretend this is a new problem or that you care about the credibility of right-wing media, because you obviously don't from your postings. |
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Post by mrpastelito on Jul 22, 2024 10:45:23 GMT
One of the most disturbing things about the Biden presidency has been the willingness of the media to protect Biden. How do they rebuild their reputation, as organisations and individuals? By digging a gigantic memory hole. Only deplorables like you will remember, and then it's easy to pretend it never happened. |
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mboy
Liberal
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Posts: 23,601
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Post by mboy on Jul 22, 2024 10:46:39 GMT
I regard the defeat of Trump as a prerequisite for maintaining democracy To bad that you just cheered on the destruction of democracy with the ousting of the person who overwhelming won the Democratic Primary in every single state. Harris as the nominee has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. This is bad-faith nonsense and you know it. It's no different to all the people who attacked/defended Gordon Brown for becoming PM without an election, pivoting 180-degrees for Theresa May and Rishi Sunak. |
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Post by islington on Jul 22, 2024 10:47:24 GMT
One of the most disturbing things about the Biden presidency has been the willingness of the media to protect Biden. How do they rebuild their reputation, as organisations and individuals? Do the mainstream liberal US media refer, in their regular news reporting (not in opinion columns) to Mr Trump as 'lying'? (For instance, about the result of the 2020 election.)
In the UK, the Guardian routinely does this and I find it highly irritating. I want my news sources simply to report what a politician is saying. It's not their job to to tell me whether he is lying. I'll decide that for myself, thank you very much.
It's a deeply worrying example of the way that news sources that used to claim to be objective, and I think did genuinely strive to achieve that, have allowed themselves to fall into naked partisanship in recent years. The stubborn protection of Mr Biden was another example, until the extent of his frailty became undeniable.
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 22, 2024 10:47:31 GMT
Biden's withdrawal will now likely give the Democrats a month of high profile media coverage . Likely to be pretty helpful to them. ..and possibly more importantly, they will be able to focus on the cognitive decline and age of the other candidate. Although less pronounced than Biden's, it is still there for all to see in his speeches and - like Biden's decline - it will only get worse, not better. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 22, 2024 10:48:55 GMT
When Joe Biden wakes up this morning, will he remember that he has withdrawn? Do you think Trump will remember (or care) that Biden has withdrawn? Of course he will remember, his latest grievance is that the GOP should be compensated for all the time and effort they spent campaigning against Biden only for the Democrats to switch candidates. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 22, 2024 10:52:08 GMT
To bad that you just cheered on the destruction of democracy with the ousting of the person who overwhelming won the Democratic Primary in every single state. Harris as the nominee has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. This is bad-faith nonsense and you know it. It's no different to all the people who attacked/defended Gordon Brown for becoming PM without an election, pivoting 180-degrees for Theresa May and Rishi Sunak. The bad-faith comes from those who think they can disregard election results when it suits them while claiming to be trying to save democracy. |
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mboy
Liberal
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Posts: 23,601
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Post by mboy on Jul 22, 2024 10:56:07 GMT
The candidate withdrew after being selected. It happens. It's not a big deal. What do you expect? Everyone to say "No, you're not *allowed* to withdraw, Joe"? This juvenile line of attack is beneath you tbh.
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 22, 2024 11:00:27 GMT
I regard the defeat of Trump as a prerequisite for maintaining democracy To bad that you just cheered on the destruction of democracy with the ousting of the person who overwhelming won the Democratic Primary in every single state. Harris as the nominee has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. That is a palpably ridiculous comment (and I expect better from you tbf, given your general excellent knowledge on US matters). By that logic, if Biden has died for whatever reason yesterday - rather than just withdrawing his nomination (which he is surely entitled to do??!) - Harris, as the official VP, would also have no democratic legitimacy because she hadnt won any Dem Primary? She's the VP fergawdssake. 81 million people voted for a ticket which contained her name in 2020. You could even argue that any challenge to her right to stand as presumptive candidate (by virtue of being VP) could be considered undemocratic; but that would be an internal issue for the Dem party [as would be the case in similar circumstances for the GOP]. I mean, we all know where you stand in terms of who you want to win, but you dont help yourself with comments like this. |
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 22, 2024 11:01:17 GMT
This is bad-faith nonsense and you know it. It's no different to all the people who attacked/defended Gordon Brown for becoming PM without an election, pivoting 180-degrees for Theresa May and Rishi Sunak. The bad-faith comes from those who think they can disregard election results when it suits them while claiming to be trying to save democracy. Jan 6 says Hi |
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cathyc
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,058
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Post by cathyc on Jul 22, 2024 11:01:28 GMT
This is bad-faith nonsense and you know it. It's no different to all the people who attacked/defended Gordon Brown for becoming PM without an election, pivoting 180-degrees for Theresa May and Rishi Sunak. when it suits them while claiming to be trying to save democracy. Absolutely. To combine a couple of points, do you think Trump will wake up this morning, or any morning, and remember that he lost the Presidency? Now that you said he is trying another grift to recoup campaign funds spent in running against Biden it makes yesterday's news much more fun. |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,345
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Post by stb12 on Jul 22, 2024 11:03:56 GMT
It still can’t beat the President Ford situation as he became President without appearing on a Presidential ballot paper at all at the previous election
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