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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 15, 2024 13:32:43 GMT
“Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Donald J Trump There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. If Trump thinks he has evidence of election fraud he should produce it. If he claims to have evidence but keeps it hidden, then he in fact does not have evidence. Vague assertions are not enough. He needs to have concrete evidence that can be independently adjudicated in court. I might think I have evidence that Labour stole the recent UK general election. But unless I put that evidence out there for other people to scrutinise, I just be some crazy guy shouting out into the void and would rightly laughed at, ridiculed and/or ignored. |
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Jul 15, 2024 13:49:28 GMT
As soon as Donald Trump attempted to hold onto power in 2021, it became accurate to describe him as a threat to democracy. The fact that someone might be inclined to assassinate a threat to democracy (though the initial evidence seems to suggest the shooter was just a really odd nut job, it's possible that he really did believe that's what he was doing) is immaterial. As it happens, I wonder what the discourse would look like if the shooter had been the father of one of those (then) teenage beauty queens whose dressing rooms were allegedly invaded by Donald Trump. Killing the prime opposition candidate is the way to protect democracy? You've lost it |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,737
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Post by right on Jul 15, 2024 13:53:23 GMT
There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. If Trump thinks he has evidence of election fraud he should produce it. If he claims to have evidence but keeps it hidden, then he in fact does not have evidence. Vague assertions are not enough. He needs to have concrete evidence that can be independently adjudicated in court. I might think I have evidence that Labour stole the recent UK general election. But unless I put that evidence out there for other people to scrutinise, I just be some crazy guy shouting out into the void and would rightly laughed at, ridiculed and/or ignored. No, he should forget it because talking about it turns off swing voters Even if there was the most blatant fraud imaginable then it's in his self interest to keep schtum and to produce the evidence after he's won |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,737
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Post by right on Jul 15, 2024 14:24:30 GMT
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observer
Non-Aligned
Posts: 2,446 
Member is Online
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Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 14:45:11 GMT
There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. If Trump thinks he has evidence of election fraud he should produce it. If he claims to have evidence but keeps it hidden, then he in fact does not have evidence. Vague assertions are not enough. He needs to have concrete evidence that can be independently adjudicated in court. I might think I have evidence that Labour stole the recent UK general election. But unless I put that evidence out there for other people to scrutinise, I just be some crazy guy shouting out into the void and would rightly laughed at, ridiculed and/or ignored. I was referring to his statement about the constitution IF there had been election fraud on a scale large enough to affect the election result. If there had then indeed other elements of the constitution would be non-applicable |
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observer
Non-Aligned
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Member is Online
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Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 14:50:55 GMT
Yes, it suggests that the lawfare may be coming to an end: See new posts Conversation Jonathan Turley @jonathanturley The dismissal of the classified documents case is a seismic development. From the beginning of all of these cases, I have said that the Mar-a-Lago case was the greatest threat to the former president. It is now dismissed. 4:03 pm · 15 Jul 2024 |
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Jul 15, 2024 14:52:43 GMT
As soon as Donald Trump attempted to hold onto power in 2021, it became accurate to describe him as a threat to democracy. The fact that someone might be inclined to assassinate a threat to democracy (though the initial evidence seems to suggest the shooter was just a really odd nut job, it's possible that he really did believe that's what he was doing) is immaterial. As it happens, I wonder what the discourse would look like if the shooter had been the father of one of those (then) teenage beauty queens whose dressing rooms were allegedly invaded by Donald Trump. Killing the prime opposition candidate is the way to protect democracy? You've lost it If you think that's what I said, you've lost it. |
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Post by markgoodair on Jul 15, 2024 15:01:29 GMT
There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. If Trump thinks he has evidence of election fraud he should produce it. If he claims to have evidence but keeps it hidden, then he in fact does not have evidence. Vague assertions are not enough. He needs to have concrete evidence that can be independently adjudicated in court. I might think I have evidence that Labour stole the recent UK general election. But unless I put that evidence out there for other people to scrutinise, I just be some crazy guy shouting out into the void and would rightly laughed at, ridiculed and/or ignored. In each and every case that Trump and his legal team have brought before the courts on grounds of electoral fraud they have been dismissed due to a lack of credible evidence . |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,441
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 15, 2024 15:23:59 GMT
Okay, I am the second least woke person on the board  There may be others that want to claim second  |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,441
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 15, 2024 15:25:36 GMT
Oh!! My dear Sir! You claim to much. I just cannot permit you the occupation of that high ground, long staked out by myself. I am deeply hurt by that claim, as your credentials are far weaker than my own, less well rooted and of far more recent timing. Maybe we should have a poll? The have a year long investigation into why the poll went 'wrong' |
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 15, 2024 15:40:00 GMT
powerful stuff
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 15, 2024 15:48:32 GMT
Okay, I am the second least woke person on the board There may be others that want to claim second Isn't it a bit woke to claim that you aren't woke? 😉 |
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Post by aargauer on Jul 15, 2024 15:54:23 GMT
The way you collect Nectar points has changed. He 'has the power'! Nectar points appear to me to be like green stamps. They are the sort of thing that entices British chavs to excitement over minor discounts and 'value' that isn't really there. In short I don't understand them any more than I do air miles. So I ignore the whole boiling and delete them. I have about 3000 pounds worth of air miles and had enough nectar points to buy a computer. That's value in my book. |
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,358
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Post by stb12 on Jul 15, 2024 15:58:33 GMT
The problem as far as I can see it is that both sides think their hyperbole is valid while the others is not |
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Post by islington on Jul 15, 2024 16:10:24 GMT
The problem as far as I can see it is that both sides think their hyperbole is valid while the others is not Yes. But the fact that one side indulges in lurid and provocative rhetoric doesn't license the other to follow suit.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 15, 2024 16:12:19 GMT
I accept that the speaker's style in that video is somewhat hyperbolic, just about everything he actually said is factually accurate..
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Jul 15, 2024 16:24:05 GMT
I accept that the speaker's style in that video is somewhat hyperbolic, just about everything he actually said is factually accurate.. He certainly pointed out things from the other side (not an invalid thing to do) but he didn’t really address the criticisms about how the possibility of a second Trump presidency is being portrayed I don’t want to get into guessing games about what has motivated who to be violent and so on, but it’s undeniable that saying things like democracy will end and there will be no more elections if Trump wins is very strong stuff I like American elections from a psephology perspective but the partisan political discourse is frankly beyond help now I think and it’s very depressing, I don’t see it getting any better whoever wins in November |
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 15, 2024 16:39:29 GMT
Yes, it suggests that the lawfare may be coming to an end: See new posts Conversation Jonathan Turley @jonathanturley The dismissal of the classified documents case is a seismic development. From the beginning of all of these cases, I have said that the Mar-a-Lago case was the greatest threat to the former president. It is now dismissed. 4:03 pm · 15 Jul 2024 The reason Jonathan Turley (who is hardly an unbiased commentator) felt this case was the greatest threat to Trump was because it was the one where he was most obviously guilty. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was overturned by the 11th Circuit, but then the losers will appeal to SCOTUS… so, this has brought Trump a lot more time, which is all he really needs. At this rate he will be dead of natural causes before these cases get anywhere. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 15, 2024 17:05:49 GMT
Trump's VP pick is apparently being announced later today. All indications are that it will be Vance but this could be misdirection.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,644
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Post by mboy on Jul 15, 2024 17:25:02 GMT
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse  Vance is not a serious person, and is in some ways worse than Trump. Given Trump's age there is a substantial chance the VP will become president. |
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