|
|
Post by carlton43 on Jul 14, 2024 23:30:42 GMT
The BBC getting dragged in... And Moscow are trying to claim that the Azov Brigade are behind it... C'mon now folks, this is getting desperate - a Fox/Murdoch tabloid offshoot is trying to say that a Republican registered kid in Hicksville PA was persuaded to take a gun and shoot the ex-President by the words of a London-based radio commentator? I'm sure that this line has nothing to do with the long-running Murdoch crusade against the BBC... But did he actually broadcast that remark? If he did, he should be sacked, arrested, prosecuted and jailed. And the BBC should be censured and heavily fined with a deduction of 10% from annual licence fee income this year and future years. |
|
jimboo2017
Non-Aligned
Posts: 5,874
Member is Online
|
Post by jimboo2017 on Jul 15, 2024 0:34:13 GMT
Thank God for the voice of reason
|
|
|
|
Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jul 15, 2024 0:37:03 GMT
Thank God for the voice of reason
It's a good job I know you're joking. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,737
|
Post by right on Jul 15, 2024 6:29:24 GMT
Joe has a suggestion
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,644
|
Post by mboy on Jul 15, 2024 7:46:08 GMT
This hatred of Trump is really hatred of ordinary citizens with non-woke opinions. Such good people were labelled 'deplorable' by Clinton. She characterised them as racists, white supremacists, sexists and on and on and on. The anger and hatred felt towards these 'deplorables' stems from the fact that they won't do as the left tells them to. As with Remain voters in the UK these people had been used to getting their own way...with their 'inferiors' knowing their place. Egged on by the media by spurious allegations that ordinary people were idiots they got angrier and angrier. The media and the Dems fed this with the Steele dossier, allegations that their opponents were fascists etc. They have been making their gullible supporters into a coiled, overwound spring ..with the consequences we saw today There is no one on this forum less woke than me. And while all you say above is true (and you could have added the disgraceful apologism for political violence that we saw from senior Democrats during the "George Floyd riots", and the un-democratic promotion of "stolen election" narratives in 2016 and in Georgia), the fact that you cannot accept that Trump is a dangerous demagogue who has contributed hugely to the rise of violent and hateful sentiment - that is a result of your own tribalism. He is clearly a major part of the problem. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Jul 15, 2024 7:52:49 GMT
This hatred of Trump is really hatred of ordinary citizens with non-woke opinions. Such good people were labelled 'deplorable' by Clinton. She characterised them as racists, white supremacists, sexists and on and on and on. The anger and hatred felt towards these 'deplorables' stems from the fact that they won't do as the left tells them to. As with Remain voters in the UK these people had been used to getting their own way...with their 'inferiors' knowing their place. Egged on by the media by spurious allegations that ordinary people were idiots they got angrier and angrier. The media and the Dems fed this with the Steele dossier, allegations that their opponents were fascists etc. They have been making their gullible supporters into a coiled, overwound spring ..with the consequences we saw today There is no one on this forum less woke than me. And while all you say above is true (and you could have added the disgraceful apologism for political violence that we saw from senior Democrats during the "George Floyd riots", and the un-democratic promotion of "stolen election" narratives in 2016 and in Georgia), the fact that you cannot accept that Trump is a dangerous demagogue who has contributed hugely to the rise of violent and hateful sentiment - that is a result of your own tribalism. He is clearly a major part of the problem. Oh!! My dear Sir! You claim too much. I just cannot permit you the occupation of that high ground, long staked out by myself. I am deeply hurt by that claim, as your credentials are far weaker than my own, less well rooted and of far more recent timing. |
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,644
|
Post by mboy on Jul 15, 2024 8:15:16 GMT
Okay, I am the second least woke person on the board  |
|
|
|
Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 8:20:31 GMT
This hatred of Trump is really hatred of ordinary citizens with non-woke opinions. Such good people were labelled 'deplorable' by Clinton. She characterised them as racists, white supremacists, sexists and on and on and on. The anger and hatred felt towards these 'deplorables' stems from the fact that they won't do as the left tells them to. As with Remain voters in the UK these people had been used to getting their own way...with their 'inferiors' knowing their place. Egged on by the media by spurious allegations that ordinary people were idiots they got angrier and angrier. The media and the Dems fed this with the Steele dossier, allegations that their opponents were fascists etc. They have been making their gullible supporters into a coiled, overwound spring ..with the consequences we saw today There is no one on this forum less woke than me. And while all you say above is true (and you could have added the disgraceful apologism for political violence that we saw from senior Democrats during the "George Floyd riots", and the un-democratic promotion of "stolen election" narratives in 2016 and in Georgia), the fact that you cannot accept that Trump is a dangerous demagogue who has contributed hugely to the rise of violent and hateful sentiment - that is a result of your own tribalism. He is clearly a major part of the problem. I'm far from tribalist. I used to think, like you, that there was something 'off' about Trump. But I was wrong. He is actually a believer in America's liberal democracy. In its liberal constitution...which is the best the world has ever seen. And free speech. And separation of powers . And equality before the law He doesn't just mouth empty words. He puts himself out there to oppose the people who attack those values. We have to support those people who have that courage. We have to oppose the frauds who seek to destroy those liberal values. This isn't a matter of tribalism as you put it. |
|
cathyc
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,071
|
Post by cathyc on Jul 15, 2024 8:23:23 GMT
There is no one on this forum less woke than me. And while all you say above is true (and you could have added the disgraceful apologism for political violence that we saw from senior Democrats during the "George Floyd riots", and the un-democratic promotion of "stolen election" narratives in 2016 and in Georgia), the fact that you cannot accept that Trump is a dangerous demagogue who has contributed hugely to the rise of violent and hateful sentiment - that is a result of your own tribalism. He is clearly a major part of the problem. I'm far from tribalist. I used to think, like you, that there was something 'off' about Trump. But I was wrong. He is actually a believer in America's liberal democracy. In its constitution...which is the best the world has ever seen. And free speech. And separation of powers . And equality before the law He doesn't just mouth empty words. He puts himself out there to oppose the people who attack those values. We have to support those people who have that courage. We have to oppose the frauds who seek to destroy those liberal values. This isn't a matter of tribalism as you put it. “Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Donald J Trump |
|
|
|
Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 8:26:06 GMT
I'm far from tribalist. I used to think, like you, that there was something 'off' about Trump. But I was wrong. He is actually a believer in America's liberal democracy. In its constitution...which is the best the world has ever seen. And free speech. And separation of powers . And equality before the law He doesn't just mouth empty words. He puts himself out there to oppose the people who attack those values. We have to support those people who have that courage. We have to oppose the frauds who seek to destroy those liberal values. This isn't a matter of tribalism as you put it. “Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Donald J Trump There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. |
|
|
|
Post by aargauer on Jul 15, 2024 8:32:24 GMT
Okay, I am the second least woke person on the board called me woke. So I can't come greater than 4th. |
|
cathyc
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,071
|
Post by cathyc on Jul 15, 2024 8:33:26 GMT
“Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” Donald J Trump There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. Does he have the right to terminate the constitution? |
|
|
|
Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 8:45:43 GMT
There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. Does he have the right to terminate the constitution? No one does. But the constitution rests upon the ultimate sovereignty of the people. If their views/votes were usurped - as he believes - then a coup has taken place and he would be justified in saying so. Of course, the Left opposed Trump way before and their claims are just strategic cover for their preconceived notions. The whole Russiagate tissue of lies for example and the unconstitutional politicisation of government agencies such as the IRS and the FBI |
|
|
|
Post by observer on Jul 15, 2024 8:53:42 GMT
It's very interesting that he is now in the position to be a unifier of the nation.
He will almost certainly now appeal to America to put it's recent divisions into the past
|
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Jul 15, 2024 9:50:15 GMT
There is no one on this forum less woke than me. And while all you say above is true (and you could have added the disgraceful apologism for political violence that we saw from senior Democrats during the "George Floyd riots", and the un-democratic promotion of "stolen election" narratives in 2016 and in Georgia), the fact that you cannot accept that Trump is a dangerous demagogue who has contributed hugely to the rise of violent and hateful sentiment - that is a result of your own tribalism. He is clearly a major part of the problem. Oh!! My dear Sir! You claim to much. I just cannot permit you the occupation of that high ground, long staked out by myself. I am deeply hurt by that claim, as your credentials are far weaker than my own, less well rooted and of far more recent timing. Maybe we should have a poll? |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,737
|
Post by right on Jul 15, 2024 10:00:14 GMT
Does he have the right to terminate the constitution? No one does. But the constitution rests upon the ultimate sovereignty of the people. If their views/votes were usurped - as he believes - then a coup has taken place and he would be justified in saying so. Of course, the Left opposed Trump way before and their claims are just strategic cover for their preconceived notions. The whole Russiagate tissue of lies for example and the unconstitutional politicisation of government agencies such as the IRS and the FBI The election stealing stuff is (mostly) baloney. Yes the US does have a diverse patchwork of election regulations and there are some crooked areas, and some of those will have people ideologically committed enough to cheat - and they will lean more heavily Democrat rather than Republican. UK commentary mostly misses this enormous difference between US and UK election process and so the idea that you can have a mostly fair process with pockets of sometimes deep corruption isn't possible with the Electoral Commission and local authorities. So the BBC says there's "no evidence" when the more accurate thing would be to say there's evidence but there always is and it won't have made a difference with this margin. The question was whether this was large scale or centrally organised? There's really little evidence that there was. So was there electoral skullduggery? Sure, it would have been unusual if there hadn't been. Did this favour the Democrats? Not only are they concentrated in some of the urban rotten boroughs were lately this has been prevalent, but they thought Trump was the new Hitler, while the Republicans in 2000 didn't see Biden the same way. Did it affect a state - that sort of stuff would certainly be possible in the American system, although the evidence does seem to be surprisingly poorly put together here. Did it affect enough states to swing the electoral college - the case seems to have fallen apart by this point. As to the 5 million vote margin that Biden had - that would be extremely hard to manufacture and no evidence has come out that this was tried. And that's quite important because even if the Dems stole the Electoral College - and they almost certainly didn't - it can be called overturning the law and not overturning the whole process. But this stuff is poisonous for Trump. Voters are not interested in the arcana of whether or not Trump was denied a win on points, important as that is for Trump's self image. If Trump finds a way to shut up about it his poll numbers rise. When he talks about it they seem to dip. Obviously it was a different calculation in the Primaries, but this is no longer the Primaries. In fact a secret Democrat weapon should be to float doubts about the integrity of the 2020 election whenever Trump starts to look disciplined and hasn't talked about the election for a week or so. So when Trump is banging on about the economy or that Biden's not able to dress himself, just put an article somewhere where it's going to come to Trump's attention pointing out that some election official in Georgia or wherever has been caught in fraud, and watch The Donald derail his election campaign for a bit. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Jul 15, 2024 10:16:22 GMT
There may have been fraud. I don't know. He thinks there was. He believes he has evidence. He has every right to speak. Does he have the right to terminate the constitution? Only if he has a Tesco Club Card. |
|
|
|
Post by Richard Cromwell on Jul 15, 2024 10:43:53 GMT
As soon as Donald Trump attempted to hold onto power in 2021, it became accurate to describe him as a threat to democracy. The fact that someone might be inclined to assassinate a threat to democracy (though the initial evidence seems to suggest the shooter was just a really odd nut job, it's possible that he really did believe that's what he was doing) is immaterial. As it happens, I wonder what the discourse would look like if the shooter had been the father of one of those (then) teenage beauty queens whose dressing rooms were allegedly invaded by Donald Trump.
|
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Jul 15, 2024 11:15:29 GMT
Does he have the right to terminate the constitution? Only if he has a Tesco Club Card. The way you collect Nectar points has changed. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Jul 15, 2024 11:21:20 GMT
Only if he has a Tesco Club Card. The way you collect Nectar points has changed. He 'has the power'! Nectar points appear to me to be like green stamps. They are the sort of thing that entices British chavs to excitement over minor discounts and 'value' that isn't really there. In short I don't understand them any more than I do air miles. So I ignore the whole boiling and delete them. |
|
