hengog
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Post by hengog on Jul 14, 2024 12:47:25 GMT
The central problem with the US is that literally millions of their citizens have had their brains totally melted by QAnonist slop. Trump is in reality a symptom of this, rather than the actual disease. I had to look up ‘QAnon’ . It’s interesting that we too had , for a while, a bizarre obsession gripping many that there were evil networks of paedophiles embedded in the establishment , but here the loons were on the left and their targets Conservative politicians and those linked to them. For a while this obsession cropped up in all sorts of places ( eg a Welsh rugby forum I chat on where , when it veered into political discussion , revealed a startling level of gullibility regarding the wildest rumours, coupled with derisive contempt of the naivety of those who were sceptical of them). And here of course it crept into ‘ respectable ‘ political life when exploited by that odious MP, Tom Something. ( What happened to him?) Maybe we should be careful not to feel too superior to those US Citizens similarly willing to be gulled into believing loathsome nonsense regarding those they disagree with. |
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bigfatron
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Post by bigfatron on Jul 14, 2024 12:48:15 GMT
I feel a lot of the speculation about the shooter's motives leaves out one major possibility - simply the desire to be notorious, to carry out some meaningful act which ensures that one is remembered forever, to go out 'in a blaze of glory'.
This has been the primary motive in a number of major US shootings, I would not be remotely surprised if there is no great political driver in this instance, and that fame is the main motivation for this one as well.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 14, 2024 12:50:48 GMT
The central problem with the US is that literally millions of their citizens have had their brains totally melted by QAnonist slop. Trump is in reality a symptom of this, rather than the actual disease. I had to look up ‘QAnon’ . It’s interesting that we too had , for a while, a bizarre obsession gripping many that there were evil networks of paedophiles embedded in the establishment , but here the loons were on the left and their targets Conservative politicians and those linked to them. For a while this obsession cropped up in all sorts of places ( eg a Welsh rugby forum I chat on where , when it veered into political discussion , revealed a startling level of gullibility regarding the wildest rumours, coupled with derisive contempt of the naivety of those who were sceptical of them). And here of course it crept into ‘ respectable ‘ political life when exploited by that odious MP, Tom Something. ( What happened to him?) Maybe we should be careful not to feel too superior to those US Citizens similarly willing to be gulled into believing loathsome nonsense regarding those they disagree with. Tom Watson, Deputy Leader of the Labour Party no less. The loathsome scumbag did seek re-election in 2019 but was granted a Peerage and now sits in the House of Lords. |
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bigfatron
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Post by bigfatron on Jul 14, 2024 12:55:14 GMT
The central problem with the US is that literally millions of their citizens have had their brains totally melted by QAnonist slop. Trump is in reality a symptom of this, rather than the actual disease. I had to look up ‘QAnon’ . It’s interesting that we too had , for a while, a bizarre obsession gripping many that there were evil networks of paedophiles embedded in the establishment , but here the loons were on the left and their targets Conservative politicians and those linked to them. For a while this obsession cropped up in all sorts of places ( eg a Welsh rugby forum I chat on where , when it veered into political discussion , revealed a startling level of gullibility regarding the wildest rumours, coupled with derisive contempt of the naivety of those who were sceptical of them). And here of course it crept into ‘ respectable ‘ political life when exploited by that odious MP, Tom Something. ( What happened to him?) Maybe we should be careful not to feel too superior to those US Citizens similarly willing to be gulled into believing loathsome nonsense regarding those they disagree with. Although here that credulous reaction did follow the outing of a succession of high-profile figures for long-term sex abuse (Saville, Harris, Cyril Smith) that had been going on in plain sight and where complainants had been systematically disbelieved. The accusations against Saville were dismissed for years as loathsome nonsense despite being true, so some willingness to consider allegations before coming to a conclusion is badly needed. So it was not entirely unreasonable to believe that there were further revelations to come. That absolutely does not excuse how some of those wrongly accused were treated, which was shameful. |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jul 14, 2024 12:56:10 GMT
I'm afraid nutcases with assault rifles are as American as apple pie. It's surprising that there aren't more events like this. But it will give Trump a big political boost, ironically, even if the nutcase turns out to be a conspiratorial irrationalist. Correct, the details don't matter. What matters is that image of Trump, blood on his face, fist raised. He couldn't have scripted it any better. Ironically it was only possible due to yet another failure by the Secret Service. They should have never allowed him to stand up in an exposed position like that when they had no way of knowing if the danger had passed. You can hear from the video of the incident one of the agents confirming that the shooter was down before they got up and moved him Although I’d agree it seemed a bit quick for them to be certain there was no other shooter close by |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 14, 2024 13:06:45 GMT
Correct, the details don't matter. What matters is that image of Trump, blood on his face, fist raised. He couldn't have scripted it any better. Ironically it was only possible due to yet another failure by the Secret Service. They should have never allowed him to stand up in an exposed position like that when they had no way of knowing if the danger had passed. You can hear from the video of the incident one of the agents confirming that the shooter was down before they got up and moved him Although I’d agree it seemed a bit quick for them to be certain there was no other shooter close by The second part is the key bit. As I understand it standard procedure would have been to keep him covered to the greatest degree possible until he was back in his car. |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 13:45:24 GMT
Not current, but still...
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 14, 2024 13:54:20 GMT
The central problem with the US is that literally millions of their citizens have had their brains totally melted by QAnonist slop. Trump is in reality a symptom of this, rather than the actual disease. Trump dosent passionately believe almost anything that he says. He just found a market niche USP down the QAnon-type conspiracy theory route and exploited it brilliantly I must admit. As such, he now seems almost certain to be the next President and God help the USA (including my family and friends over there)  |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 13:56:56 GMT
Great pick Keir
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observer
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Post by observer on Jul 14, 2024 14:05:32 GMT
Lammy really is down in the dirt. Totally unaware. Should be sacked for this. |
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 14, 2024 14:09:40 GMT
What exactly does he mean by "this should never be allowed to happen to another President". Is he implying this was allowed to happen? And how do you prevent a President (or other senior leader) from being shot at? It happens quite a lot (and I expected it to happen more often in America for obvious reasons). Not just the obvious US politicians which have been mentioned already, but Fico recently, Olaf Palme and many others in western democracies. It sort of goes with the territory and when division is sought - rather than candidates who try to bring people together- then those with extremist/mental health issues on either side of the division, can get pushed over the edge.
Lammy's point is crass in the extreme and very childish however.
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jul 14, 2024 14:10:41 GMT
Lammy really is down in the dirt. Totally unaware. Should be sacked for this. He’s not going to be sacked for a tweet from 2019 |
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Post by greatkingrat on Jul 14, 2024 14:10:43 GMT
I think some people haven't noticed this tweet is five years old.
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 14:16:03 GMT
Lammy really is down in the dirt. Totally unaware. Should be sacked for this. He’s not going to be sacked for a tweet from 2019 If Trump wins he can't stay at least in the Foreign Office. This will have been noticed. I hear Lammy is considerably more intelligent than his Twitter stream, but his Twitter stream is a disaster zone Didn't Keir think of what happens if Trump gets in? If he wants us to detach from America in these circumstances ironically I think it would be a great thing. But he probably doesn't, so Lammy is an appalling choice. |
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Post by manchesterman on Jul 14, 2024 14:18:00 GMT
Bang goes the 'conspiracy theories' then. As I suspected, it's just another nutjob with access to deadly weapons in an open-carry state. Who'd have guessed it? Not really, in most states anybody can register as a Republican or a Democrat, it doesn't mean they actually support that party. I wasnt focusing on his registration. I dont think I'm going out on a limb to suggest that this wasnt a "political act" in the usual sense of the word. I would put money on it more likely some random dude who either had mental health or substance abuse issues or relationship issues, or just got sacked etc and was a pro-gun nutjob who had easy access to deadly weapons and just saw the red mist and decided to go out in a "blaze of glory". It couldve been Trump, it couldve been Biden, it couldve been Taylor Swift or the local Governor. Trump just happened to be in town that day. By the way, not even 200 days into 2024 and there have already been almost 400 "mass murders" (5+ killings) in the USA. It almost comes down to law of averages that a famous person is gonna get shot at every so often. |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jul 14, 2024 14:18:26 GMT
He’s not going to be sacked for a tweet from 2019 If Trump wins he can't stay. This will have been noticed. I hear Lammy is considerably more intelligent than his Twitter stream, but his Twitter stream is a disaster zone Didn't Keir think of what happens if Trump gets in? If he wants us to detach from America in these circumstances ironically I think it would be a great thing. But he probably doesn't, so Lammy is an appalling choice. The Labour Leadership including Lammy have already heavily moderated their tone about Trump in preparation for this, as much as he can hold a grudge I imagine it will be way down in his list of grudges |
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London Lad
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Post by London Lad on Jul 14, 2024 14:19:19 GMT
Lammy does have form though...  |
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graham
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Post by graham on Jul 14, 2024 14:33:12 GMT
Lammy does have form though... I see nothing inaccurate in anything Lammy has said there. The shock of this event does not change the facts as stated. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jul 14, 2024 14:34:26 GMT
Lammy does have form though... Not a single word of that is untrue. |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jul 14, 2024 14:38:43 GMT
Lammy does have form though... Not a single word of that is untrue. Whether that’s the case or not diplomacy doesn’t always involve the truth, certainly not in public anyway But the point is it’s from years ago when he was on the backbenches |
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