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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 11:38:06 GMT
The usual caveats about familiarity and language apply though. QAnon and its whacko theories have an enormous following in Germany for one. And that is strongly correlated with AfD support, one suspects? Little doubt that the US has a particular problem though, which can be traced back to three decades ago and the widespread right wing refusal to see Bill Clinton as a legitimate President. My annoying off beat theory is that Trump's disfunction owes more to Norman Vincent Peale and his book the Art of Positive Thinking than anything overtly political. Peale was the celebrant at (I think) his first marriage, so it was a close relationship. Never giving up means not accepting the reality of poor election results. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 14, 2024 11:39:18 GMT
The usual caveats about familiarity and language apply though. QAnon and its whacko theories have an enormous following in Germany for one. And that is strongly correlated with AfD support, one suspects? Little doubt that the US has a particular problem though, which can be traced back to three decades ago and the widespread right wing refusal to see Bill Clinton as a legitimate President. Hard to say. The Querdenker (the sort of affiliate of QAnon) is centred on Stuttgart, not exactly a hotbed of the AfD. And the coup plotters are mainly Wessis, albeit a former AfD type is on trial. The US undoubtedly has a very large problem in this regard though, indeed. But the lack of interest in the media in some of the deeply disturbing groups in Europe and elsewhere outside America is shocking. |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 11:40:58 GMT
And that is strongly correlated with AfD support, one suspects? Little doubt that the US has a particular problem though, which can be traced back to three decades ago and the widespread right wing refusal to see Bill Clinton as a legitimate President. Hard to say. The Querdenker (the sort of affiliate of QAnon) is centred on Stuttgart, not exactly a hotbed of the AfD. And the coup plotters are mainly Wessis, albeit a former AfD type is on trial. The US undoubtedly has a very large problem in this regard though, indeed. But the lack of interest in the media in some of the deeply disturbing groups in Europe and elsewhere outside America is shocking. Meloni |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jul 14, 2024 11:48:07 GMT
The failure of the Secret Service here is absolutely staggering. There is simply no way that an assailant should have been able to access an open roof top just 500 feet from where Trump was speaking. That he was able to do so with an assault rifle, then set the rifle up and get off several shots before being taken down by a Secret Service sniper is genuinely hard to believe. While I never underestimate the possibility of incompetence in such scenarios it is hardly surprising that more conspiratorial explanations are surfacing. We should always assume incompetence first. And besides, if it were about stopping Trump, an assassinated Biden would do that job a lot better - not only getting the stubborn man out of the way but engendering a vast amount of sympathy for his replacement. Although it would probably be Kamala. And the government wouldn't be stupid enough to assassinate the main opposition politician who they've been trying to imprison. I hope they wouldn't at least. There are bound to be conspiracy theories, regardless of the circumstances and regardless of how much definite information is found by the investigation. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jul 14, 2024 11:57:00 GMT
Call it what you want, but there will be a lot of sympathy for Trump, a lot of revulsion at such a brazen act of anti-democratic political violence and there will be admiration for his defiance. That photograph is iconic and classic in the Sands of Iwo Jima artwork and reality from WW2. It is not 'moronic' for such an image to sway a section of the electorate, but unfortunate. It will have a dramatic effect. Trump decisely won the election TODAY. I understand why you might think that, but we are still four months away from the election. Four months is a long time in politics. All sorts of things could happen in the campaign, in terms of policy or whatever else. It may be that Biden’s gaffes last week will turnout to be a transient blip; he might recover and be fluent and convincing for the rest of the campaign. When there was a delay in confirming the candidacy of Diane Abbot six weeks before the general election, it was being reported as if it were a major crisis which would overshadow the whole campaign. It didn’t. |
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Post by johnloony on Jul 14, 2024 12:05:35 GMT
Reminders of the attempt on Ronald Reagan in 1981 come back. “Honey, I forgot to duck”. “I hope you guys are Republicans”. I’m not sure if I’m correct in remembering this, but the bullet which hit Reagan went into his lung because his arm was raised in waving to the onlookers. Otherwise he might have been hit on the arm. |
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observer
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Post by observer on Jul 14, 2024 12:08:10 GMT
The media needs a good look at itself.
They have whipped up such hatred that I would not be surprised if there is another attack on Trump.
I have suspected something similar for a long time now
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Post by johnloony on Jul 14, 2024 12:11:00 GMT
I am puzzled because at about 4am it was reported that the Secret Service had said that the object which cut Trump’s ear was a shard of glass or shrapnel from a teleprompter (or other object) which had been shattered by the bullet, and not actually a bullet itself. Now the news reports are still saying that it was a bullet. The photo of the object whizzing past also doesn’t look like a bullet. A bullet would be travelling at about 2,000 feet per second, so 80 feet per frame. |
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Post by graham on Jul 14, 2024 12:11:03 GMT
Gets weirder Usual caution about the reliability of breaking news It is being suggested that the guy who made the donation is another person of the same name in his late 60s. |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:19:07 GMT
That photograph is iconic and classic in the Sands of Iwo Jima artwork and reality from WW2. It is not 'moronic' for such an image to sway a section of the electorate, but unfortunate. It will have a dramatic effect. Trump decisely won the election TODAY. I understand why you might think that, but we are still four months away from the election. Four months is a long time in politics. All sorts of things could happen in the campaign, in terms of policy or whatever else. It may be that Biden’s gaffes last week will turnout to be a transient blip; he might recover and be fluent and convincing for the rest of the campaign. When there was a delay in confirming the candidacy of Diane Abbot six weeks before the general election, it was being reported as if it were a major crisis which would overshadow the whole campaign. It didn’t. Yes, but most of us saw that that wasn't the case (although in retrospect we largely seem to have underestimated her chances of winning as an independent) This is of a different nature. Not saying that other developments can't overshadow the election, but it's unlikely not to be a defining moment of the campaign. It was an assassination attempt. |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:19:29 GMT
Gets weirder Usual caution about the reliability of breaking newsIt is being suggested that the guy who made the donation is another person of the same name in his late 60s. |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:22:56 GMT
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:27:16 GMT
Farage making the perhaps surprising point that this could hurt Trump's campaign because they may have to call off rallies which are integral to his campaign
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observer
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Post by observer on Jul 14, 2024 12:29:10 GMT
He clearly wasn't calling for assassination but this sort of language, which has been going on for years now from the Democrats, is repulsive. You're right about what the Dems would say if Trump had said that. It's bent |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 14, 2024 12:34:50 GMT
On the immediate consequences this is actually very good for Joe Biden. After over two weeks of near endless media coverage of his woes we are going to have days if not weeks where the focus is almost entirely on Trump.
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:35:48 GMT
He clearly wasn't calling for assassination but this sort of language, which has been going on for years now from the Democrats, is repulsive. You're right about what the Dems would say if Trump had said that. It's bent My point was the opposite, that we should be chill about this rhetoric |
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right
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Post by right on Jul 14, 2024 12:37:39 GMT
On the immediate consequences this is actually very good for Joe Biden. After over two weeks of near endless media coverage of his woes we are going to have days if not weeks where the focus is almost entirely on Trump. A very good point - although it does make Trump look more vigorous than Biden which is currently the main theme of his campaign. If the shooter is indeed a right winger this makes the narrative far more complex |
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Post by John Chanin on Jul 14, 2024 12:37:41 GMT
I'm afraid nutcases with assault rifles are as American as apple pie. It's surprising that there aren't more events like this.
But it will give Trump a big political boost, ironically, even if the nutcase turns out to be a conspiratorial irrationalist.
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Post by observer on Jul 14, 2024 12:40:10 GMT
Farage is calling out 'liberal intolerance on mainstream media '.
I'm sure he's right.
It goes back, I believe, to Hillary Clinton's description of opponents as 'a basket of deplorables'.
This disdain needs to be thought about
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 14, 2024 12:47:02 GMT
I'm afraid nutcases with assault rifles are as American as apple pie. It's surprising that there aren't more events like this. But it will give Trump a big political boost, ironically, even if the nutcase turns out to be a conspiratorial irrationalist. Correct, the details don't matter. What matters is that image of Trump, blood on his face, fist raised. He couldn't have scripted it any better. Ironically it was only possible due to yet another failure by the Secret Service. They should have never allowed him to stand up in an exposed position like that when they had no way of knowing if the danger had passed. |
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