maxque
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Post by maxque on Oct 19, 2020 15:00:12 GMT
Apparently, there's an exit poll showing Luis Arce (MAS) at 52% and Carlos Mesa at 35%. That would mean that the people of Bolivia have democratically completely condemned the infamous military coup by the right and reinstated a left-wing leader. Finally some good news !
Edit: it's 52/31%. The MAS also takes a majority in both chambers. Jeannine Anez officially said Arce was elected.
You mean a coup against an authoritarian thug who, after a referendum decided against letting him stay in power, went and did it anyway, then rigged said election and used violence against peaceful protestors? Patriotic army officers in the Bolivian military did the right thing. Acre has also done the right thing announcing a government of national unity, let's hope he sticks to it. There has been studies by American academics which showed that the OAS claims of fraud were due to a extremely bad methodology for analysis rather than any fraud. |
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Post by relique on Oct 19, 2020 16:45:32 GMT
We're at 17% counting and MAS is trailing by 8 points in the official results, which is more than Evo was trailing by at this point. Of course it's possible that these partial results are merely even more lopsidedly urban and/or eastern than last time, but I'm not breathing a sigh of relief yet. At 21,66% counting, MAS is now trailing by less than 5 points. |
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 19, 2020 18:27:04 GMT
Seems like a clear and fair outcome. Hopefully lots of people on all sides have learned valuable lessons over the last year...
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 19, 2020 18:51:44 GMT
Well they would say that wouldn't they. This is a far left anti capitalist org that Novara Media, John McDonnell etc. are associated with. "Progressive" they ain't.
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 19, 2020 20:28:27 GMT
Lucho takes the lead. Still just 28% counted, the speed at which he's been picking up votes over the past ten points has been amazing.
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 20, 2020 8:59:20 GMT
This is going to end up even more of a landslide than the exit polls claimed. As clear a referendum on the coup as anyone could want.
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Oct 20, 2020 10:53:47 GMT
This is going to end up even more of a landslide than the exit polls claimed. As clear a referendum on the coup as anyone could want. Yes, heartening to see. |
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 20, 2020 11:01:04 GMT
Perhaps the lesson is that the voters want their leaders to be the socialists right now *and* for them to act within the constitution?
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Post by Strontium Dog on Oct 20, 2020 11:42:18 GMT
Far too nuanced, this is clearly a raging endorsement of someone who isn't even running.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 20, 2020 12:17:45 GMT
The "nuanced" take is surely that this result shows most think Morales was badly treated even if he didn't always do himself favours.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 20, 2020 14:02:38 GMT
I'd say, this result shows only, that the IndiGenous majority stands usually (sureoy not entirely so at the end of his recent reign) in the Morales-camp.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 20, 2020 14:42:42 GMT
I'd say, this result shows only, that the IndiGenous majority stands usually (sureoy not entirely so at the end of his recent reign) in the Morales-camp. Indeed. It's the Europeans who still hold most of the power though. |
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Oct 20, 2020 18:24:03 GMT
I have discovered that liberal centrists are very concerned about candidates choosing to ignore the result of a popular refer ... aha ha ha ha ha ... no, sorry I can't.
In all seriousness,, I think this is the best outcome conceivable. Both sides of the "is it a coup?" discussion get to save face, as it's pretty much a moot point. If it was, it was defeated relatively easily and, if it wasn't, then it achieved its presumable sole purpose of removing Morales. Democracy prevails and the government gets to implement a relatively harmless agenda free of the overbearing influence of a populist "great" man (something that the world in general could do with less of).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 3:05:32 GMT
Bolivians in Great Britain:
Camacho (Creemos) 409 (42.3%)
Mesa (CC) 343 (35.47%)
Arce (MAS) 205 (21.2)
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 21, 2020 7:51:44 GMT
Bolivians in Great Britain: Camacho (Creemos) 409 (42.3%) Mesa (CC) 343 (35.47%) Arce (MAS) 205 (21.2) bolivians in most foreign countries vote like that. But not most Bolivians abroad because half of them live in Argentina (slightly under half of reg'd voters, slightly over half of votes cast) and they voted 88% Lucho (and Brazil, one of the three countries combining 3/4 of the rest, votes alike) giving him a combined 69% of the foreign vote. |
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nelson
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Post by nelson on Oct 23, 2020 17:06:50 GMT
Final result:
Arce 55.1%
Mesa 28.8%
Camacho 14.0%
Chung 1.6%
Mamani 0.5%
Turnout 88.4%
Impressive margin (and turnout).
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 23, 2020 21:29:06 GMT
Final result: Arce 55.1% Mesa 28.8% Camacho 14.0% Chung 1.6% Mamani 0.5% Turnout 88.4% Impressive margin (and turnout). Let's hope Arce keeps his promise of national unity and doesn't try and become a strongman kept in power by racial animus like the last guy. Another coup would not be a good thing. |
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nelson
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Post by nelson on Oct 23, 2020 21:46:35 GMT
Final result: Arce 55.1% Mesa 28.8% Camacho 14.0% Chung 1.6% Mamani 0.5% Turnout 88.4% Impressive margin (and turnout). Let's hope Arce keeps his promise of national unity and doesn't try and become a strongman kept in power by racial animus like the last guy. Another coup would not be a good thing. Morales weren't "kept in power by racial animus", he was simply a Socialist who tried to implement Socialist policies. Bolivia is a deeply racially polarized society. Any element of social justice in Bolivia means redistributing resources from the "hispanic" population (whites and hispanicized mestizos) to the indigenous population. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 23, 2020 21:59:23 GMT
Let's hope Arce keeps his promise of national unity and doesn't try and become a strongman kept in power by racial animus like the last guy. Another coup would not be a good thing. Morales weren't "kept in power by racial animus", he was simply a Socialist who tried to implement Socialist policies. Bolivia is a deeply racially polarized society. Any element of social justice in Bolivia means redistributing resources from the "hispanic" population (whites and hispanicized mestizos) to the indigenous population. I think we may have two different definitions of the term, because I believe that this is precisely that. The other problem here ofc is that Socialists simply want to share the cake, on a racial basis in this instance, rather than make it bigger. I don't care who has what slice, just as long as the slices keep getting bigger. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 23, 2020 23:03:56 GMT
Morales weren't "kept in power by racial animus", he was simply a Socialist who tried to implement Socialist policies. Bolivia is a deeply racially polarized society. Any element of social justice in Bolivia means redistributing resources from the "hispanic" population (whites and hispanicized mestizos) to the indigenous population. I think we may have two different definitions of the term, because I believe that this is precisely that. The other problem here ofc is that Socialists simply want to share the cake, on a racial basis in this instance, rather than make it bigger. I don't care who has what slice, just as long as the slices keep getting bigger. Today Bolivia is lost to the animalic, indolent, holdless, drug-dealing/-addicted trash - and tomorrow it will be the whole modern world. Who cares?! |
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