How would Thatcher have handled CoViD ?

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Thatcher was always very insistent that she was a scientist. None of this "we're following the science" nonsense and then invent your own strategy. She instinctively didn't like the "risky sex" stuff in the AIDS public information campaign but went with it when she understood the science behind it. So I think she'd have had a harsher lockdown, much earlier.

[mboy]

She would have said "No, no, NO!"

[The Bishop]

May 11, 2020 8:45:05 GMT mboy said:

She would have said "No, no, NO!"

Yes, but no to what?

Though I suspect that DB's instinct on this is correct.

[thirdchill]

I think some things would not have changed. Testing capacity was not there earlier on, and even Thatcher at her most determined would have had difficulty getting that set up at an early date simply because the infrastructure was not fully there for it (unlike with some other countries).

My own personal opinion (posted on another thread) is that Thatcher would have probably put in some measures earlier (banning of mass gatherings, school closures, cheltenham not happening, working from home earlier) as she was always cautious. However I think it would be more likely with the aim of going for a Sweden-style approach if the South Korean test and trace approach was not possible, as closing vast swathes of the economy would have been anathema to her.

She would have been more flexible than some people think, and possibly put in lockdown measures if necessary and for the shortest possible time period, however she would have been very unhappy to do this and would only do this if there was no other choice. And I think there would have been greater scrutiny of the science behind it first (behind closed doors), Thatcher's attention to detail would be useful here.

The furlough scheme, whilst she would have been flexible enough to implement some of it if necessary, she would not have made it so open-ended, it definitely would have been less generous and I think there would be a lot of communication publicly on how much it was all costing the taxpayer.

[DrW]

Is the question what Thatcher would do if she was in charge now or what would she do with a CoVID-type pandemic when she was governing in the 80’s? Because the two questions would probably have very different answers. Telling people to work from home was a much less practical proposition in the 80’s and I’m sceptical that shutting down the economy (which is what a lockdown then would have amounted to, much more so than now) would have been seen as a plausible policy option.

[thirdchill]

May 11, 2020 10:29:26 GMT DrW said:

Is the question what Thatcher would do if she was in charge now or what would she do with a CoVID-type pandemic when she was governing in the 80’s? Because the two questions would probably have very different answers. Telling people to work from home was a much less practical proposition in the 80’s and I’m sceptical that shutting down the economy (which is what a lockdown then would have amounted to, much more so than now) would have been seen as a plausible policy option.

Am judging by being in charge now.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Forget Thatcher, Mitterrand was the king of social distancing.  Although admittedly it was more like voyeurism.  And he did have two households.

[slon]

May 11, 2020 2:00:39 GMT @boogieeck said:

Inpsired by Dok, of course there are different Thatchers.

Thatcher 1980 was beholden to her wet cabinet
Thatcher 1985 was in her pomp.
Thatcher 1990 was past it.

Let's take Thatcher 1985 with a cabinet of her choosing.

I think she tells the FA to finish the season on time, in front of season ticket holder only.
Pubs/restaraunts are ordered to rebrand as membership bodies, capacity halved.
Shops told to make their own arrangements
Public transport, increased by use of army if need be. Capacity cut. Possibly season ticket holders only, no cash.
No furlough, no compensation.
Elderly advised to seek shielding
Clear idea what she was doing re testing and PPE. Care homes told it was their responsibility

I think she would have privatised the NHS and banned trade unions

It would have been hell ... imagine the scenes as police in riot gear storm Guy's and St Thomas' while serried ranks of NHS staff fight back with bedpans.

[johnloony]

Instinct as a libertarian would be to relax as much as possible.
Instinct as a scientist would be to be very tough.
Scientist wins.

[The Bishop]

Tbf you can almost imagine her saying to the doubters "its for your own good!"

[AdminSTB]

How about something like this:

Good Evening,

Tonight I will set out the approach of Her Majesty’s Government in dealing with the Coronavirus. It is vital that we do so in a way which safeguards the strength of the British economy, and we must continue to live a normal a life as possible.

We will introduce compulsory social distancing measures, meaning people from different households will be required, where practicable, to remain at least six feet apart in all public places and premises including shops, supermarkets, libraries, playgrounds and gyms. This applies also to places of worship: including during baptisms, weddings and funerals.

To enable people to shop for basic necessities and to prevent panic buying, we will require all supermarkets to limit the number of essential items – such as milk, bread, toilet rolls and hand sanitiser, that each customer can buy. We would like to encourage people to use food delivery services, where they can.

People with pre-existing medical conditions which make them more susceptible to contracting coronavirus will be contacted with specific advice from their General Practitioner.

People able to work from home should do so.

You can still visit other private households, and trust the common sense of the British people in doing so in a responsible way. If you have been contacted by your GP as a vulnerable person with pre-existing medical conditions, you must make any potential visitors aware.

Parks will remain open for exercise but gatherings will be dispersed.

No Prime Minister wants to enact measures like this.

We know the damage that this disruption is doing and will do to people’s lives, to their businesses and to their jobs. And we can assure you that we will keep these restrictions under constant review. We will look again in two weeks, and relax them if the evidence shows we are able to.

It is still true that many lives will sadly be lost. And yet it is also true that there is a clear way through.

I want to thank everyone who is working to defeat the virus, from all walks of life. We acknowledge those former clinicians now coming out of retirement and back into our hospitals.

Efforts are being made to increase our stocks of equipment. We are accelerating our search for treatments. We are pioneering work on a vaccine, and making testing kits available.
The British people are at their best in a time of national crisis. And I know that as they have in the past so many times. The people of this country will rise to this challenge, as have always risen to every challenge, whether it be war or economic depression. We will succeed again, and we will come through this stronger than ever. We will defeat the coronavirus.

Thank you.

[finsobruce]

Jul 6, 2020 18:10:48 GMT AdminSTB said:

How about something like this:

Good Evening,

Tonight I will set out the approach of Her Majesty’s Government in dealing with the Coronavirus. It is vital that we do so in a way which safeguards the strength of the British economy, and we must continue to live a normal a life as possible.

We will introduce compulsory social distancing measures, meaning people from different households will be required, where practicable, to remain at least six feet apart in all public places and premises including shops, supermarkets, libraries, playgrounds and gyms. This applies also to places of worship: including during baptisms, weddings and funerals.

To enable people to shop for basic necessities and to prevent panic buying, we will require all supermarkets to limit the number of essential items – such as milk, bread, toilet rolls and hand sanitiser, that each customer can buy. We would like to encourage people to use food delivery services, where they can.

People with pre-existing medical conditions which make them more susceptible to contracting coronavirus will be contacted with specific advice from their General Practitioner.

People able to work from home should do so.

You can still visit other private households, and trust the common sense of the British people in doing so in a responsible way. If you have been contacted by your GP as a vulnerable person with pre-existing medical conditions, you must make any potential visitors aware.

Parks will remain open for exercise but gatherings will be dispersed.

No Prime Minister wants to enact measures like this.

We know the damage that this disruption is doing and will do to people’s lives, to their businesses and to their jobs. And we can assure you that we will keep these restrictions under constant review. We will look again in two weeks, and relax them if the evidence shows we are able to.

It is still true that many lives will sadly be lost. And yet it is also true that there is a clear way through.

I want to thank everyone who is working to defeat the virus, from all walks of life. We acknowledge those former clinicians now coming out of retirement and back into our hospitals.

Efforts are being made to increase our stocks of equipment. We are accelerating our search for treatments. We are pioneering work on a vaccine, and making testing kits available.
The British people are at their best in a time of national crisis. And I know that as they have in the past so many times. The people of this country will rise to this challenge, as have always risen to every challenge, whether it be war or economic depression. We will succeed again, and we will come through this stronger than ever. We will defeat the coronavirus.

Thank you.

Yes, it doesn't sound much like Boris Johnson does it?

[slon]

Jul 6, 2020 18:39:40 GMT finsobruce said:

Jul 6, 2020 18:10:48 GMT AdminSTB said:

How about something like this:

Good Evening,

Tonight I will set out the approach of Her Majesty’s Government in dealing with the Coronavirus. It is vital that we do so in a way which safeguards the strength of the British economy, and we must continue to live a normal a life as possible.

We will introduce compulsory social distancing measures, meaning people from different households will be required, where practicable, to remain at least six feet apart in all public places and premises including shops, supermarkets, libraries, playgrounds and gyms. This applies also to places of worship: including during baptisms, weddings and funerals.

To enable people to shop for basic necessities and to prevent panic buying, we will require all supermarkets to limit the number of essential items – such as milk, bread, toilet rolls and hand sanitiser, that each customer can buy. We would like to encourage people to use food delivery services, where they can.

People with pre-existing medical conditions which make them more susceptible to contracting coronavirus will be contacted with specific advice from their General Practitioner.

People able to work from home should do so.

You can still visit other private households, and trust the common sense of the British people in doing so in a responsible way. If you have been contacted by your GP as a vulnerable person with pre-existing medical conditions, you must make any potential visitors aware.

Parks will remain open for exercise but gatherings will be dispersed.

No Prime Minister wants to enact measures like this.

We know the damage that this disruption is doing and will do to people’s lives, to their businesses and to their jobs. And we can assure you that we will keep these restrictions under constant review. We will look again in two weeks, and relax them if the evidence shows we are able to.

It is still true that many lives will sadly be lost. And yet it is also true that there is a clear way through.

I want to thank everyone who is working to defeat the virus, from all walks of life. We acknowledge those former clinicians now coming out of retirement and back into our hospitals.

Efforts are being made to increase our stocks of equipment. We are accelerating our search for treatments. We are pioneering work on a vaccine, and making testing kits available.
The British people are at their best in a time of national crisis. And I know that as they have in the past so many times. The people of this country will rise to this challenge, as have always risen to every challenge, whether it be war or economic depression. We will succeed again, and we will come through this stronger than ever. We will defeat the coronavirus.

Thank you.

Yes, it doesn't sound much like Boris Johnson does it?

Where is the bit about

"The BMA and RCN are a politicised mafia",

"We must neglect no opportunity to erode the membership of these organisations"

"We must see to it our new legal structure discourages trade union membership in the NHS"

[finsobruce]

Jul 7, 2020 13:29:16 GMT slon said:

Jul 6, 2020 18:39:40 GMT finsobruce said:

Yes, it doesn't sound much like Boris Johnson does it?

Where is the bit about

"The BMA and RCN are a politicised mafia",

"We must neglect no opportunity to erode the membership of these organisations"

"We must see to it our new legal structure discourages trade union membership in the NHS"

that only appears if you use the lemon juice.

[Deleted]

Just dawned on me that we've tried to discuss this before.

[johnloony]

In about 1989 I remember reading an alternative-future article in a magazine which imagined that Thatcher continued as PM until 2000, retired as PM and as an MP at the same time, and the subsequent by-election in Finchley was won by the Green Party (the Conservative candidate was Jeffrey Archer).

[The Bishop]

The general consensus in the late 1980s was that Thatcher really would go "on and on" as PM, and nearly all those sort of prediction articles around that time assumed as much. Then again, few if any foresaw the imminent collapse of the Eastern bloc and then USSR either.

[slon]

Jul 7, 2020 15:31:13 GMT finsobruce said:

Jul 7, 2020 13:29:16 GMT slon said:

Where is the bit about

"The BMA and RCN are a politicised mafia",

"We must neglect no opportunity to erode the membership of these organisations"

"We must see to it our new legal structure discourages trade union membership in the NHS"

that only appears if you use the lemon juice.

Has it started?

[nodealbrexiteer]

With soap and water near to hand

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2022 9:03:22 GMT slon said:

Jul 7, 2020 15:31:13 GMT finsobruce said:

that only appears if you use the lemon juice.

Has it started?

Not before time.