The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 2, 2023 10:15:11 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes.
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nodealbrexiteer
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non aligned favour no deal brexit!
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jan 2, 2023 11:53:35 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. Unless they invade the Falklands |
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Post by swindonlad on Jan 2, 2023 12:07:25 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. It does seem an unusual group to pick a fight with in order to win over public opinion. Other unions, such as picking fights with the RMT might win support with those thinking about whether to vote Tory, but the NHS employees, especially nurses is only going to be a vote loser. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 2, 2023 14:39:40 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. It does seem an unusual group to pick a fight with in order to win over public opinion. Other unions, such as picking fights with the RMT might win support with those thinking about whether to vote Tory, but the NHS employees, especially nurses is only going to be a vote loser. Surely any government 'picks fights' over policy, principles and facts as they see them; never just 'win over public opinion'? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 16:31:21 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 |
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slon
Non-Aligned
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Post by slon on Jan 2, 2023 17:35:20 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 Takes two to tango .... and as I have mentioned earlier in this thread a war with the unions is a very Thatcher like play, and one which goes down well with the Tory press |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 2, 2023 17:53:01 GMT
Dated the 21st December, and a deeply unpopular statement. A war with NHS workers is not how the Tories are going to revive their fortunes. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 Since there was a Tory-led govt from 2010 to 2015 and a Tory govt since 2015 they've taken a while to get round to it haven't they? |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 2, 2023 19:30:04 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 You think that the Royal College of Nursing - an organization that had previously never gone on strike in its history and which was not even officially a trade union until the late 1970s - is taking industrial action for political reasons? |
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jan 2, 2023 19:43:19 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 You think that the Royal College of Nursing - an organization that had previously never gone on strike in its history and which was not even officially a trade union until the late 1970s - is taking industrial action for political reasons? I am glad you came back to the forum after your time away given a number of thoughtful posts |
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iain
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Post by iain on Jan 2, 2023 21:16:06 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree.They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 Since there was a Tory-led govt from 2010 to 2015 and a Tory govt since 2015 they've taken a while to get round to it haven't they? To the extent that the strikes are to do with the wider government as opposed to specific industrial conditions, I would suggest the lingering smell of death plays a much more important role than the political hue. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 22:11:54 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree.They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 Since there was a Tory-led govt from 2010 to 2015 and a Tory govt since 2015 they've taken a while to get round to it haven't they? It’s partly to do with who is in charge of the unions at the time (the RMT and nursing crusaders being obvious examples), partly to do with the smell of blood in the water & an opportune moment with Labour in a relatively strong position and voters generally more hostile to the Tories, giving the unions hope of maximum return. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 22:17:27 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 You think that the Royal College of Nursing - an organization that had previously never gone on strike in its history and which was not even officially a trade union until the late 1970s - is taking industrial action for political reasons? I don’t think the argument that they haven’t done it before, so can’t be doing it now, is very compelling. There was an interesting ‘Moral Maze’ episode on a week or two ago, asking why nurses strike now but didn’t back then. I find the argument that the culture has changed quite a compelling one. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jan 2, 2023 22:45:10 GMT
I believe the union masters are out to cause as much trouble as they can for this govt because it’s a Tory govt, not because they are modern-day manifestations of Joseph Rowntree. They look to make peoples’ lives as miserable as they practically can, and make services and businesses ever more uneconomical during a time of economic pain, short-sightedly threatening the future of the very workers and industries they claim to care about. In other words they’re grandstanding ideologues who I wouldn’t trust an inch. I don’t doubt you’re right that a war ‘with NHS workers’ would be very difficult compared with other strikers. That, in my view, is part of the problem with how people view the NHS in a laughably semi-divine way. Happy New Year.🙂 You think that the Royal College of Nursing - an organization that had previously never gone on strike in its history and which was not even officially a trade union until the late 1970s - is taking industrial action for political reasons? In one word. Clearly 'Yes'! |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 3, 2023 0:14:22 GMT
You think that the Royal College of Nursing - an organization that had previously never gone on strike in its history and which was not even officially a trade union until the late 1970s - is taking industrial action for political reasons? I don’t think the argument that they haven’t done it before, so can’t be doing it now, is very compelling. There was an interesting ‘Moral Maze’ episode on a week or two ago, asking why nurses strike now but didn’t back then. I find the argument that the culture has changed quite a compelling one. In the past they were not a trade union, now they are a trade union. That's one significant change. There's a lot of it about, professions turning into unionised jobs, and then doing typical unionised workforce stuff like going on strike. |
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Post by swindonlad on Jan 3, 2023 6:01:43 GMT
It does seem an unusual group to pick a fight with in order to win over public opinion. Other unions, such as picking fights with the RMT might win support with those thinking about whether to vote Tory, but the NHS employees, especially nurses is only going to be a vote loser. Surely any government 'picks fights' over policy, principles and facts as they see them; never just 'win over public opinion'? So, you're saying that no government have ever picked a fight as they were unpopular & to solidify their support? To pick a non UK government example, the Argentine invasion of the Falklands |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 3, 2023 10:55:02 GMT
So, you're saying that no government have ever picked a fight as they were unpopular & to solidify their support? To pick a non UK government example, the Argentine invasion of the Falklands And 'where' did I ever say any of that? Where did I use the word 'never'? It is not an'on-off' switch. It is not the simplistic assertion that you made about governments acting only to affect public support or reactions. 'never' is the fifteenth word in your previous post, just after the semi colon.  |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 3, 2023 11:26:34 GMT
It does seem an unusual group to pick a fight with in order to win over public opinion. Other unions, such as picking fights with the RMT might win support with those thinking about whether to vote Tory, but the NHS employees, especially nurses is only going to be a vote loser. Surely any government 'picks fights' over policy, principles and facts as they see them; never just 'win over public opinion'? They do, yes. They also tend to choose to do so on something where they have a good chance of winning. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 3, 2023 12:44:47 GMT
Since there was a Tory-led govt from 2010 to 2015 and a Tory govt since 2015 they've taken a while to get round to it haven't they? It’s partly to do with who is in charge of the unions at the time (the RMT and nursing crusaders being obvious examples), partly to do with the smell of blood in the water & an opportune moment with Labour in a relatively strong position and voters generally more hostile to the Tories, giving the unions hope of maximum return. Neither the RMT nor the RCN are affiliated to a political party (as far as I'm aware). When RMT and RCN members vote on industrial action I really do think they're thinking terms and conditions rather than the overthrow of the eeevil tories. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 3, 2023 13:09:32 GMT
I'm old enough to recall the industrial unrest in the NHS 35 (!) years ago now - in the end the nurses and most other health workers didn't go on strike then, but they seriously considered it and their opposition forced the Thatcher government into some concessions.
There was also the ambulance workers industrial action in 1989/90, where the same government ultimately ended up giving them a lot of what they wanted.
So please, no fairy tales of how this has suddenly emerged out of nowhere.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 3, 2023 13:21:02 GMT
I'm old enough to recall the industrial unrest in the NHS 35 (!) years ago now - in the end the nurses and most other health workers didn't go on strike then, but they seriously considered it and their opposition forced the Thatcher government into some concessions. There was also the ambulance workers industrial action in 1989/90, where the government was ultimately forced to give them a lot of what they wanted. So please, no fairly tales of how this has suddenly emerged out of nowhere. I think I can count on one hand the number of occasions I have had to travel by ambulance, but two of them occurred during this strike and I was transported by weird ambulance type vehicles driven by the police (the second occasion, when they were unasked for and unwanted, they helpfully transported me to the cells at Wealdstone nick!) |
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