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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 15, 2023 13:31:15 GMT
People will still say Starmer campaigned to make Corbyn Prime Minister until the day he dies I think Tony Blair has managed to overcome being Michael Foot's candidate. quite well actually as he wrote a letter saying he joined the labour party because of Michael Foot. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Feb 15, 2023 13:35:01 GMT
I am very uneasy at Starmer appearing to rely on Blair for advice at all. At the time of the 2003 Iraq War Starmer wrote an article highly critical of that conflict and strongly implying that there had been a breach of International Law as a result of US/UK aggression. Why,therefore, is he not applying the same energy to getting Blair arraigned before the Internatioonal Criminal Court at the Hague that he is devoting to removing Corbyn from the party? It is a good question to pose to him. Because he's a politician now, not a lawyer. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 15, 2023 13:38:19 GMT
And even as a lawyer, he would have more worthwhile and feasible things to do.
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graham
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Post by graham on Feb 15, 2023 13:41:48 GMT
I am very uneasy at Starmer appearing to rely on Blair for advice at all. At the time of the 2003 Iraq War Starmer wrote an article highly critical of that conflict and strongly implying that there had been a breach of International Law as a result of US/UK aggression. Why,therefore, is he not applying the same energy to getting Blair arraigned before the Internatioonal Criminal Court at the Hague that he is devoting to removing Corbyn from the party? It is a good question to pose to him. Because he's a politician now, not a lawyer. So the law no longer matters to him! I have long held the opinion that in terms of the Nuremberg Indictement related to 'Planning for War' Blair and Bush were more guilty than any Nazi leader arraigned before that Tribunal - with the exception of Ribbentrop.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 15, 2023 14:02:14 GMT
The liberation of Iraq was plainly not a war of aggression. And the repeated attempts by embittered Saddam apologists to have Tony Blair stand trial at the Hague are utterly ridiculous.
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Feb 15, 2023 14:16:09 GMT
The liberation of Iraq was plainly not a war of aggression. And the repeated attempts by embittered Saddam apologists to have Tony Blair stand trial at the Hague are utterly ridiculous. Well it wasn't exactly defensive was it. I don't want the drama of Tony Blair going to the Hague, but it was a totally arbitrary invasion. There are many tinpot dictators around and we can't and shouldn't invade them all. |
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graham
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Post by graham on Feb 15, 2023 14:22:32 GMT
The liberation of Iraq was plainly not a war of aggression. And the repeated attempts by embittered Saddam apologists to have Tony Blair stand trial at the Hague are utterly ridiculous. The US and UK imposed its will on Iraq in the same way that Germany imposed its will on Poland in 1939. Both were criminal breaches of International Law. Personally I would happily see Blair suffer the same fate as Bin Laden - including being dumped at sea.
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Post by grahammurray on Feb 15, 2023 14:22:59 GMT
The liberation of Iraq was plainly not a war of aggression. And the repeated attempts by embittered Saddam apologists to have Tony Blair stand trial at the Hague are utterly ridiculous. It was nothing but an act of aggreession. Even if it wasn't then it was always going to be seen as one in the region. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 15, 2023 14:43:29 GMT
Corbyn isn't an electoral god here. He voted against the Iraq War but there was a big swing against him in 2005. Some still fondly remember the days when the Lib Dem leaflets sought votes against him as he was "Tony Blair's Labour candidate". Did Blair ever actually live in Islington North or was he spared the opportunity to vote for Corbyn? I note that in the last election Margaret Hodge had "(address in Islington North Constituency)" which must have made the ballot paper interesting for her. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Feb 15, 2023 14:58:36 GMT
Some still fondly remember the days when the Lib Dem leaflets sought votes against him as he was "Tony Blair's Labour candidate". Did Blair ever actually live in Islington North or was he spared the opportunity to vote for Corbyn? I note that in the last election Margaret Hodge had "(address in Islington North Constituency)" which must have made the ballot paper interesting for her. He was in south (in a 4 million quid house). Most of stereotypical guardianista Islington is in south as I'm sure you know. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 15, 2023 15:34:50 GMT
The liberation of Iraq was plainly not a war of aggression. And the repeated attempts by embittered Saddam apologists to have Tony Blair stand trial at the Hague are utterly ridiculous. It was nothing but an act of aggreession. Even if it wasn't then it was always going to be seen as one in the region. You and the other Graham are absolutely clueless on what a war of aggression is. It's where the aggressor seeks to gain control of the territory. This was never the intention in Iraq and nor was it the outcome: after a brief period (under a year) of occupation, which is allowed under international law, Iraq returned to its own sovereignty. |
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graham
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Post by graham on Feb 15, 2023 16:21:22 GMT
It was nothing but an act of aggreession. Even if it wasn't then it was always going to be seen as one in the region. You and the other Graham are absolutely clueless on what a war of aggression is. It's where the aggressor seeks to gain control of the territory. This was never the intention in Iraq and nor was it the outcome: after a brief period (under a year) of occupation, which is allowed under international law, Iraq returned to its own sovereignty. Blair and Bush had no more right - if anything less - to invade Iraq than Putin had to invade the Ukraine a year ago. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 15, 2023 16:23:15 GMT
You and the other Graham are absolutely clueless on what a war of aggression is. It's where the aggressor seeks to gain control of the territory. This was never the intention in Iraq and nor was it the outcome: after a brief period (under a year) of occupation, which is allowed under international law, Iraq returned to its own sovereignty. Blair and Bush had no more right - if anything less - to invade Iraq than Putin had to invade the Ukraine a year ago. You're loopy. |
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Feb 15, 2023 16:29:09 GMT
Blair and Bush had no more right - if anything less - to invade Iraq than Putin had to invade the Ukraine a year ago. You're loopy.  It's a relief to read this fruit-loop stuff outside the Labour Party these days, rather than have to put up with it at internal meetings. Glad the idiots have left & gone home. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 15, 2023 16:36:08 GMT
This thread is becoming dangerously off topic. Can we agree there are legitimate reasons to have supported the war in Iraq and to have opposed it that doesn't extend to comparisons with Ukraine, and leave it at that.
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graham
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Post by graham on Feb 15, 2023 16:51:56 GMT
Blair and Bush had no more right - if anything less - to invade Iraq than Putin had to invade the Ukraine a year ago. You're loopy. And perhaps you are hypocritical. I am aware of no substantial legal authorities who believe that the 2003 attack on Iraq was anything but illegal. The refusal to allow Hans Blix to complete his weapons inspections was clear evidence that Blair and Bush were hell bent on war. |
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Feb 15, 2023 17:56:28 GMT
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Post by johnloony on Feb 15, 2023 18:25:39 GMT
And perhaps you are hypocritical. I am aware of no substantial legal authorities who believe that the 2003 attack on Iraq was anything but illegal. The refusal to allow Hans Blix to complete his weapons inspections was clear evidence that Blair and Bush were hell bent on war. There wasn’t any attack on Iraq in 2003, so it doesn’t make any sense to debate whether that non-existent attack was legal or illegal. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Feb 15, 2023 19:21:24 GMT
doesn't appear to open anything? |
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batman
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Post by batman on Feb 15, 2023 21:26:38 GMT
Some still fondly remember the days when the Lib Dem leaflets sought votes against him as he was "Tony Blair's Labour candidate". Did Blair ever actually live in Islington North or was he spared the opportunity to vote for Corbyn? I note that in the last election Margaret Hodge had "(address in Islington North Constituency)" which must have made the ballot paper interesting for her. can help you there Tim. I remember very well that during the general election campaign Tony Blair was an elector in the other Islington constituency, and had a "Vote Chris Smith Labour" poster in his window. |
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It's a relief to read this fruit-loop stuff outside the Labour Party these days, rather than have to put up with it at internal meetings. Glad the idiots have left & gone home.