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Post by greenchristian on May 17, 2019 10:30:28 GMT
Also, if you look at the Barber example, there is a much clearer instruction of "elect Barber". What does Brexit mean? Does it mean get on with it, cancel it, Brexit, I've noticed that seems to be the topic of political conversation, or do I get a triple letter score here? Brexit means Brexit. Have you not been paying any attention at all over the last three years?  |
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carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,907 
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2019 10:38:45 GMT
Why on earth do we have all this faff?
The instructions are clear on the ballot. Put an 'X' in the box next to your preferred choice.
Simples.
leave on that basis. Anything other than a 'X' in that box is always a void.
End of.
If the voters are too thick to follow that amount of simplicity. Fuck them.
And why oh why agonise over what is in and what is out. it is an on-off switch. Cross in the box or VOID.
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Post by timrollpickering on May 17, 2019 11:02:37 GMT
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Post by pepperminttea on May 17, 2019 12:09:59 GMT
I assume a not totally insignificant number of people will do this. Should it count as a spoilt ballot, or as a vote for the Brexit Party? A spoilt ballot, which will achieve nothing except complicate the job of the counters of the votes and will fail to make a scrap of difference to the politicians who will be elected. If they wrote it in the Brexit party's box that would count though wouldn't it? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 17, 2019 12:16:57 GMT
Why on earth do we have all this faff? The instructions are clear on the ballot. Put an 'X' in the box next to your preferred choice. Simples. leave on that basis. Anything other than a 'X' in that box is always a void. End of. If the voters are too thick to follow that amount of simplicity. Fuck them. And why oh why agonise over what is in and what is out. it is an on-off switch. Cross in the box or VOID. Bit harsh on people who through age, infirmity or other reason find it difficult to execute a perfect X. |
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cefin
Non-Aligned
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Post by cefin on May 17, 2019 13:02:50 GMT
I don't agree with you there. Its a demonstration that you feel unable to vote for any candidate or party on the ballot paper but are showing that your non vote is not because you are too lazy to bother getting up off the settee and going up the polling station as it seems such a large percentage of the population are. No it isn’t. It is childish stupidity. Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. One can only presume that you've never bothered to make the effort to stand for election then as I can assure you that when inspecting the 'spoilt' ballot paper box some of the comments do embarrass the candidates in front of the others who are busy giggling and thankful that the comments weren't aimed at them ( until of course the next spoilt ballot paper contains an insuilting remark about them) So you are incorrect in your false assertion that 'no one cares' I personally enjoy seeing the red faced reaction of another candidate slaughtered in the comments on a spoilt ballot paper and occasionally point out that I am in full agreement with the candid assessment of said candidate. If you ever decide to stand for election then you may of course take a different more sympathetic approach to rival political representatives discomfort than I do. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:11:13 GMT
No it isn’t. It is childish stupidity. Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. One can only presume that you've never bothered to make the effort to stand for election then as I can assure you that when inspecting the 'spoilt' ballot paper box some of the comments do embarrass the candidates in front of the others who are busy giggling and thankful that the comments weren't aimed at them ( until of course the next spoilt ballot paper contains an insuilting remark about them) So you are incorrect in your false assertion that 'no one cares' I personally enjoy seeing the red faced reaction of another candidate slaughtered in the comments on a spoilt ballot paper and occasionally point out that I am in full agreement with the candid assessment of said candidate. If you ever decide to stand for election then you may of course take a different more sympathetic approach to rival political representatives discomfort than I do. If the candidates are embarrassed by comments written on ballot papers by anonymous tossers then they need to grow thicker skin. End of story. |
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cefin
Non-Aligned
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Post by cefin on May 17, 2019 13:35:49 GMT
One can only presume that you've never bothered to make the effort to stand for election then as I can assure you that when inspecting the 'spoilt' ballot paper box some of the comments do embarrass the candidates in front of the others who are busy giggling and thankful that the comments weren't aimed at them ( until of course the next spoilt ballot paper contains an insuilting remark about them) So you are incorrect in your false assertion that 'no one cares' I personally enjoy seeing the red faced reaction of another candidate slaughtered in the comments on a spoilt ballot paper and occasionally point out that I am in full agreement with the candid assessment of said candidate. If you ever decide to stand for election then you may of course take a different more sympathetic approach to rival political representatives discomfort than I do. If the candidates are embarrassed by comments written on ballot papers by anonymous tossers then they need to grow thicker skin. End of story. Whether they need to grow a thicker skin or not you'd previously maintained that no one would care, which indicates that you've never stood for election, never been present when spoilt psapers are inspected and therefore have no idea if 'anyone cares or not' None of which I feel detracts from those who wish to demonstrate whether to others or themselves that they are not voting because they are too lazy to do so, but because they do not consider any of the candidates worthy of their vote and have actually made the physical effort to attend the polling station. Which is fair enough in my book. |
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Post by owainsutton on May 17, 2019 13:39:48 GMT
Why on earth do we have all this faff? The instructions are clear on the ballot. Put an 'X' in the box next to your preferred choice. Simples. leave on that basis. Anything other than a 'X' in that box is always a void. End of. If the voters are too thick to follow that amount of simplicity. Fuck them. And why oh why agonise over what is in and what is out. it is an on-off switch. Cross in the box or VOID. Bit harsh on people who through age, infirmity or other reason find it difficult to execute a perfect X. Plus the problem of when the rules were indeed that strict, that a big cross intended as a 'none of them' spoil would be taken as a valid vote if the two lines happened to intersect in one of the boxes. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2019 13:43:19 GMT
Why on earth do we have all this faff? The instructions are clear on the ballot. Put an 'X' in the box next to your preferred choice. Simples. leave on that basis. Anything other than a 'X' in that box is always a void. End of. If the voters are too thick to follow that amount of simplicity. Fuck them. And why oh why agonise over what is in and what is out. it is an on-off switch. Cross in the box or VOID. Bit harsh on people who through age, infirmity or other reason find it difficult to execute a perfect X. What a typical Forum response. I said nothing about a perfect 'X' or a perfectly sited 'X', just an 'X' and nothing but an 'X'. If old, infirm, illiterate or with a disability, then employ the comfort of a postal at home where if can be done for one, or use a trusted proxy. I have done both myself. I know all the rules. I have been a candidate and an agent and a trainer of count observers. I had a copy of the RO Guide with lots of stuck-in specimen ballots. My contention is that this is all very silly. Accept an 'X' and nothing but an 'X' and be pretty strict about where it is placed. Do not predicate the whole issue on what a few damn fools might choose to do. Just void everything except an 'X' in the right box. Why make difficulties that are not there. have an on-off switch. |
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
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Post by Adrian on May 17, 2019 13:45:32 GMT
I could understand voters voiding their vote by just scrawling "BREXIT" on their ballot paper at the local elections, but why would they do it at the EU elections? I know some will write it this time, but unless they're complete morons they'll also put an x next to one of the pro-Brexit parties. I would imagine that party representatives at the counts will be checking to make sure that void ballots are not added to the Brexit Party total.
Edit: I've contacted the Electoral Commission as follows: Can we have confirmation that if a voter writes BREXIT on their ballot paper it will not be counted as a vote for the Brexit Party unless the writing says BREXIT PARTY or there is a cross next to the party's name?
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2019 13:55:44 GMT
No it isn’t. It is childish stupidity. Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. One can only presume that you've never bothered to make the effort to stand for election then as I can assure you that when inspecting the 'spoilt' ballot paper box some of the comments do embarrass the candidates in front of the others who are busy giggling and thankful that the comments weren't aimed at them ( until of course the next spoilt ballot paper contains an insuilting remark about them) So you are incorrect in your false assertion that 'no one cares' I personally enjoy seeing the red faced reaction of another candidate slaughtered in the comments on a spoilt ballot paper and occasionally point out that I am in full agreement with the candid assessment of said candidate. If you ever decide to stand for election then you may of course take a different more sympathetic approach to rival political representatives discomfort than I do. I am completely with Sandy in this in thinking that to spoil a ballot is utterly childish and ridiculous personal vanity. No one cares a toss how you feel or what you say or why. I certainly don't. The positive votes matter and it is all about winning. If I win by one vote and there are more spoilt ballots slagging me off than positive votes for me, I should be delighted and have no interest in the spoilt ballots or what any of them said, just glad that the stupid tossers let me win by wasting their votes. |
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Post by Andrew_S on May 17, 2019 13:57:40 GMT
I thought writing something like that would only count if you write it in the box for the party in question. Is that not correct? Nope:  I don't think that should be allowed to count as a valid vote. It's being far too generous to the voter. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2019 14:10:52 GMT
Nope: I don't think that should be allowed to count as a valid vote. It's being far too generous to the voter. Agreed. The vote mechanism is simplicity itself. Place an 'X' in the box next to Barber. Anything else void because it conflicts with what the instruction said. Why make difficulties when there are none? What is all this nonsense about 'The intention was clear' got to do with anything? Put your bloody 'X' inside a box or your pathetic nonsense will be voided. Why on earth are we even having this daft conversation. It seems to be the usual British concern to accommodate the blithering idiot sector of society. Just ignore twerps and all that they do. |
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Post by timrollpickering on May 17, 2019 14:19:58 GMT
I could understand voters voiding their vote by just scrawling "BREXIT" on their ballot paper at the local elections, but why would they do it at the EU elections? I know some will write it this time, but unless they're complete morons they'll also put an x next to one of the pro-Brexit parties. I would imagine that party representatives at the counts will be checking to make sure that void ballots are not added to the Brexit Party total. If the result in a region is very close then I hope the Electoral Commission provides some explicit guidance on this possibility as otherwise there will be a lot of mixed rulings, not helped by claims about rulings at other counts flying around on instant messenger, which will not ease tensions. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:27:26 GMT
If the candidates are embarrassed by comments written on ballot papers by anonymous tossers then they need to grow thicker skin. End of story. Whether they need to grow a thicker skin or not you'd previously maintained that no one would care, which indicates that you've never stood for election, never been present when spoilt psapers are inspected and therefore have no idea if 'anyone cares or not' None of which I feel detracts from those who wish to demonstrate whether to others or themselves that they are not voting because they are too lazy to do so, but because they do not consider any of the candidates worthy of their vote and have actually made the physical effort to attend the polling station. Which is fair enough in my book. No one who isn’t a thin skinned little wimp would care. Having thick skin is a precursor to being a good politician. If you are going to be upset by something written by a childish tosser on a piece of paper then how on earth would you survive in the commons chamber? |
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Post by Andrew_S on May 17, 2019 15:57:29 GMT
Writing the name of the candidate, or the name of the party, in the box for that candidate/party should be a valid vote. Writing it anywhere else on the ballot paper should be a spoilt paper IMO. I'm not sure why the guidelines are quite so obsessed with trying to prevent votes from being counted as spoilt
Also, I hope people who write "Brexit" on their ballot paper anywhere other than in the box for the Brexit Party don't have their vote counted as a vote for the Brexit Party, because there are other parties whose main policy is advocating Brexit, such as UKIP for example.
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Adrian on May 17, 2019 16:07:52 GMT
The Electoral Commission responded quickly, but only with a boilerplate reply about rejecting ballots for uncertainty. So I've written back pointing out that if they don't address this issue now, it's almost certain they'll be having to address it on the Sunday night.
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 17, 2019 17:00:56 GMT
I have attended many counts over the last 40 years - Borough, County, Unitary, Parliamentary and European - as candidate and/or agent.
I cannot recall any candidate ever being offended or hurt by any comment written on a ballot paper.
(Derogatory comments - in my experience - are very rare, but perhaps people are nice around here.)
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
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Post by piperdave on May 17, 2019 20:07:58 GMT
The Electoral Commission responded quickly, but only with a boilerplate reply about rejecting ballots for uncertainty. So I've written back pointing out that if they don't address this issue now, it's almost certain they'll be having to address it on the Sunday night. The Electoral Commission have no responsibility for the count at any election. Plus we are talking about a hypothetical scenario invented by one person on this forum. No-one's presented any evidence that there is a campaign afoot to have people just write 'Brexit' on the ballot paper. It'll probably never happen. |
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