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Post by overthehill on May 16, 2019 21:25:40 GMT
I assume a not totally insignificant number of people will do this.
Should it count as a spoilt ballot, or as a vote for the Brexit Party?
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Post by AdminSTB on May 16, 2019 21:32:42 GMT
I assume a not totally insignificant number of people will do this. Should it count as a spoilt ballot, or as a vote for the Brexit Party? A spoilt ballot, which will achieve nothing except complicate the job of the counters of the votes and will fail to make a scrap of difference to the politicians who will be elected. |
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Post by Strontium Dog on May 16, 2019 21:35:44 GMT
I don't know why anyone would even consider the possibility that it could count as a vote for the Brexit Party. Returning officers cannot divine a person's intentions from random words written on the ballot.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 16, 2019 21:38:23 GMT
If you wrote "Brexit Party" - clear indication. If you write "Brexit", void for uncertainty.
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Post by overthehill on May 16, 2019 21:42:50 GMT
If you wrote "Brexit Party" - clear indication. If you write "Brexit", void for uncertainty. That seems correct to me - but if you wrote "Labour" across your ballot paper then most people would accept that as a Labour vote. The electoral commission should probably do some guidance on this! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 21:47:31 GMT
I will never understand people who spoil their ballots. If you don't want to vote properly like an adult then don't vote at all.
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Post by AdminSTB on May 16, 2019 21:51:48 GMT
If you wrote "Brexit Party" - clear indication. If you write "Brexit", void for uncertainty. That seems correct to me - but if you wrote "Labour" across your ballot paper then most people would accept that as a Labour vote. The electoral commission should probably do some guidance on this! Parties supporting Brexit would encompass UKIP. Some might even say the Conservatives and Labour at a stretch. You can't read between the lines on this one. |
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Post by owainsutton on May 16, 2019 22:07:12 GMT
The returning officer being able to use their judgement is key. Just as "where the two lines of the cross meet" is no longer the only way to identify where a vote has been marked.
There might indeed be legal cases based on this, but I strongly suspect that any (unlikely) scrawl of "Labour" will be given to Labour, and any scrawl of (and only of) "Brexit" will be counted as "void for uncertainty".
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Post by Andrew_S on May 16, 2019 22:50:05 GMT
If you wrote "Brexit Party" - clear indication. If you write "Brexit", void for uncertainty. That seems correct to me - but if you wrote "Labour" across your ballot paper then most people would accept that as a Labour vote. The electoral commission should probably do some guidance on this! I thought writing something like that would only count if you write it in the box for the party in question. Is that not correct? |
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Post by AdminSTB on May 16, 2019 22:54:58 GMT
If you wrote "Brexit Party" - clear indication. If you write "Brexit", void for uncertainty. That seems correct to me - but if you wrote "Labour" across your ballot paper then most people would accept that as a Labour vote.The electoral commission should probably do some guidance on this! I would interpret that as an instruction to the counters to work a bit faster.  |
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Post by froome on May 17, 2019 4:55:01 GMT
If they write BREXIT using the first 6 boxes at the top of the ballot paper, then in many regions the X is likely to be in the Green box. So yes, we should obviously encourage it.  |
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Post by owainsutton on May 17, 2019 7:03:06 GMT
That seems correct to me - but if you wrote "Labour" across your ballot paper then most people would accept that as a Labour vote. The electoral commission should probably do some guidance on this! I thought writing something like that would only count if you write it in the box for the party in question. Is that not correct? Nope:  |
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
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Post by piperdave on May 17, 2019 9:00:18 GMT
Given the Brexit Party will be on the ballot in every constituency in GB, just put a cross in their box like the instructions say! It's fair enough in my view (though achieves nothing in concrete terms) to spoil your paper if there is no option you want to vote for, but that wouldn't be the case here.
Also, if you look at the Barber example, there is a much clearer instruction of "elect Barber". What does Brexit mean? Does it mean get on with it, cancel it, Brexit, I've noticed that seems to be the topic of political conversation, or do I get a triple letter score here?
And what would you do in Northern Ireland where there is no Brexit Party list? UKIP have Brexit in their description on the ballot paper, but they are not the only Brexit supporting party by any means.
Up to the ROs and the courts at the end of the day. The Electoral Commission can and does provide guidance as many of you will know, but it is not possible to contemplate every possible eventuality of what a voter may do.
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cefin
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Post by cefin on May 17, 2019 9:01:46 GMT
I will never understand people who spoil their ballots. If you don't want to vote properly like an adult then don't vote at all. I don't agree with you there. Its a demonstration that you feel unable to vote for any candidate or party on the ballot paper but are showing that your non vote is not because you are too lazy to bother getting up off the settee and going up the polling station as it seems such a large percentage of the population are. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 9:13:27 GMT
I will never understand people who spoil their ballots. If you don't want to vote properly like an adult then don't vote at all. I don't agree with you there. Its a demonstration that you feel unable to vote for any candidate or party on the ballot paper but are showing that your non vote is not because you are too lazy to bother getting up off the settee and going up the polling station as it seems such a large percentage of the population are. No it isn’t. It is childish stupidity. Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 17, 2019 9:20:32 GMT
Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. That is not the law. A ballot is void if it has "writing or mark by which the voter could be identified" and the key word is "could". Any mark which is distinctive and recognisable could be part of a corrupt arrangement along the lines of "you vote for me and put our agreed symbol on the ballot paper so I know it's your vote, and I'll pay you a bribe". So ballots can be void for having things written on it, not just if it is a signature or name. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 17, 2019 9:24:36 GMT
I just can't see why anyone would want to do this in this election when there is one party whose sole raison d'etre is to endorse Brexit while there are at least two other parties (UKIP and English Democrats) who have this as their main or one of their major policy planks
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Post by froome on May 17, 2019 9:30:30 GMT
I just can't see why anyone would want to do this in this election when there is one party whose sole raison d'etre is to endorse Brexit while there are at least two other parties (UKIP and English Democrats) who have this as their main or one of their major policy planks Probably the same reasoning that has given us Climate Change Independents on ballot papers competing against us. Stupidity or, to be more charitable, a lack of understanding about how the voting system works. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 9:38:14 GMT
Unless you write your name on the ballot, no one is going to know who is making the “protest”. None of those present at the count will care. If you want to get of your arse instead of sitting on the couch, then find something more productive to do rather than selfishly causing an inconvenience. That is not the law. A ballot is void if it has "writing or mark by which the voter could be identified" and the key word is "could". Any mark which is distinctive and recognisable could be part of a corrupt arrangement along the lines of "you vote for me and put our agreed symbol on the ballot paper so I know it's your vote, and I'll pay you a bribe". So ballots can be void for having things written on it, not just if it is a signature or name. I was merely stating the only method by which a voter could be identified. I don’t know exactly what constitutes a spoilt ballot according to the rules, and don’t really care to be honest. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:23:20 GMT
I assume a not totally insignificant number of people will do this. Should it count as a spoilt ballot, or as a vote for the Brexit Party? It would depend where they write it? Writing it in the Brexit Party check box is clearly a BP vote. Writing it in the LibDem box arguably wouldn't be But that would leave us requiring the returning officer to make a political judgement. Or perhaps the voter was saying he would vote LibDem because of Brexit. Who knows? |
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