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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 24, 2013 17:50:22 GMT
Mitcham and Morden was a Parliamentary defection, of course, in the early days of the SDP! Tell you what, why don't the guys here who bring up this subject of defectors seeking a new electoral mandate, go away and calculate for defections, over say the last 20 years, how many and which parties from and to, a new electoral mandate was sought by the defected person or his or her new party. See if there genuinely is any difference between parties? I would guesstimate the very highest percentage of those seeking would be 5%, and there would be no difference between parties of any significance. Then we can put it to bed once and for all! I fear Tim is correct - and his 5% figure may even be over-generous! My personal view - expressed over many years - is that defectors should normally resign and restand as a matter of principle. Sadly, I suspect any such requirement would simply result in them half-defecting (i.e. leaving their original group; sitting as 'independents'; but voting with their destination group).
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Post by timokane on Nov 24, 2013 21:40:11 GMT
When In the calendar is the most popular time to announce a defection or is it arbitrary ? I would have thought a hotspot in local elections would be late May when balances of power in town halls were being decided and it's always nice to announce and parade defectors at party conferences but there could be a pattern if the site has all the stats.
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Post by erlend on Nov 24, 2013 21:51:46 GMT
I'd guess conference time. Either your own or that the defector came from.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 24, 2013 22:05:58 GMT
Reselection time for councillors?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 22:39:54 GMT
Whilst Mark and I may disagree on many things, I confirm his consistency on this matter and actually agree with him. The people voted for her as a Labour candidate and she has, with less than half of her mandate completed, betrayed that. I would hold the view whichever party the candidate came from.
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Post by psephos on Nov 25, 2013 20:58:47 GMT
With respect, this is utterly impossible with the people we are discussing. In a 99% white Cambridge ward, someone who's not a complete opportunist can always bve found; in 60% Asian wards, up and down the country, the following is inevitable - (a) anyone who's not Asian is going to lose, so won't get selected, (b) anyone who is Asian is going to lose, unless they tailor their plans as a councillor to the 40% BME community, and speficially shout the same from the rooftops, (c) once said opportunist is elected, chances are he'll (inevitably it's a he) be out of the Party in twelve months unless his community is pandered to and money thrown on a massive scale. It's the way these people work and it's revolting. And there seems to be no exception. Unless BME people start acting colour-blind and stop fixing up councils and council selections, they will be hated by anyone not their own colour. Short of disfranchising them - which frankly they deserve - there is no way of dealing with them other than throwing council cash at "community groups". And in an era of austerity, this is massively irresponsible. No, but this doesn't seem like a discussion where you're particularly interested in observable fact. The idea that what I describe is "[not] observable fact" is a case of sticking your head in the sand. In majority or plurality BME wards, you might as well not bother standing if white unless backed by the local biraderi, and we all know why. Dominic Grieve has spelt it out in the last week; typically, he has already had his arm twisted to say sorry and it has plainly already set his career back ten years, rather than having him hailed as the man prepared to stick his head above the parapet.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 25, 2013 22:47:17 GMT
We could get into a discussion of the many statements you've made that conflict with reality, but instead I'm just going to ask you who constitutes the biraderi in Vassall ward. If you can't even competently describe the group you're referring to, there's no point having this discussion.
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Post by erlend on Nov 26, 2013 20:42:35 GMT
In discussing Vassall recently the subject of biraderis has not come up. I will try to remember it when I am running the committee room on Thursday.
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Post by tonygreaves on Nov 30, 2013 12:49:03 GMT
More minor movement in Nelson (Pendle, Lancs). It is reported locally that Nelson Town Councillor Mohammed Safir (Southfield ward) has been expelled from the Labour Party. This apparently follows a Labour selection battle for the Pendle seat in Southfield ward which comes out in May following the decision of Cllr Sheena Dunn not to stand in May. It appears that Cllr Safir expected to be chosen as the Labour candidate but the decision was for a different candidate (from a different Asian group). Cllr Safir then offered his son to the Tories as their candidate next May, which they accepted.
Tony Greaves
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 16:56:43 GMT
He "offered his son to the Tories as their candidate next May"; dear Lord, you couldn't make it up.
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Post by psephos on Nov 30, 2013 19:03:27 GMT
Oh, but you surely could; no need to make it up, there is of course already something quite similar in Genesis 22:1-11. On a more general note I made some comments about this a few weeks ago, was pooh-poohed;, yet look here we are with tribal loyalties and pique counting more to some "sections of the community" than ideology or principles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 20:29:49 GMT
Oh, but you surely could; no need to make it up, there is of course already something quite similar in Genesis 22:1-11. On a more general note I made some comments about this a few weeks ago, was pooh-poohed;, yet look here we are with tribal loyalties and pique counting more to some "sections of the community" than ideology or principles. I don't think anyone doubts that the commitment to democracy and political ideals (rather than racial voting and nepotism) is somewhat lacking in large sections of certain ethnic communities.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 30, 2013 20:44:58 GMT
Cllr Safir then offered his son to the Tories as their candidate next May, which they accepted. Tony Greaves Was there a burning bush involved somewhere Tony?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 21:19:34 GMT
surely in this case the Tories should have turned down flat the 'offer'
Seems like we were spot on to get rid of the dad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 5:58:26 GMT
Oh, Pendle
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Post by marksenior on Dec 2, 2013 17:12:35 GMT
Ken Turner and his wife Hazel both Conservative councillors for Hayley Green and Cradley South on Dudley MBC have resigned from the Conservative group and are now Independents .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 17:39:20 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 2, 2013 21:34:33 GMT
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Post by erlend on Dec 2, 2013 22:38:19 GMT
Interesting. Why is it in the Cheshire press. Is that one of those chains so it is a bit random?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 23:59:43 GMT
"The development means that Powys County Council now has three independent groups - the Shire Independents, the Powys Independents and the newly formed Independents."
Wahoo the new Stoke!
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