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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 3, 2013 0:19:55 GMT
A bit like Preston, really.
I understand that Cllr Safir made his offer to the Tories through the good offices of Cllr Abdul Aziz who took him round to the MP's office.
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 10:31:53 GMT
A bit like Preston, really. I understand that Cllr Safir made his offer to the Tories through the good offices of Cllr Abdul Aziz who took him round to the MP's office. Tony OUCH, Lord Greaves, that hurts
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 3, 2013 16:38:19 GMT
Brent: Dhiraj Kataria (Welsh Harp ward) to Liberal Democrat. Had been expelled from the Labour group in July 2012 for working with the Liberal Democrat group against Labour, so it is not a surprise.
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Post by erlend on Dec 3, 2013 17:11:16 GMT
That is 1:1 in Brent now isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 20:12:19 GMT
Cllr Alex Lunn of Edinburgh City Council defects from Labour to SNP. A notable and honourable decision,without doubt surely this has nothing to do with his recent failure to be selected as a Labour MSP candidate.
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Dec 5, 2013 20:58:47 GMT
A defection that puts the balance of the council coalition back to what it was after the election, following Labour' gain in the Liberton by-election.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 21:05:31 GMT
A notable and honourable decision,without doubt surely this has nothing to do with his recent failure to be selected as a Labour MSP candidate. I can't see how defecting to the SNP would help him in this regard in the short term though. Unless a lot of incumbents stand down, there won't be many openings for new SNP candidates in winnable seats for 2016 at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 21:08:46 GMT
A notable and honourable decision,without doubt surely this has nothing to do with his recent failure to be selected as a Labour MSP candidate. I can't see how defecting to the SNP would help him in this regard in the short term though. Unless a lot of incumbents stand down, there won't be many openings for new SNP candidates in winnable seats for 2016 at all. It is called going in a huff.
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Post by erlend on Dec 5, 2013 21:38:04 GMT
How about candidate in 2015? Even if they lose the referendum there might be gains at Westminster.
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johnr
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Post by johnr on Dec 6, 2013 12:20:21 GMT
It has also been asked, if independence was his reason for defection, why did he not join Labour for Independence?
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Post by erlend on Dec 6, 2013 14:02:00 GMT
Let's just ask 'Apart from the very key issue of independence' how much difference there is between Scottish Labour and the SNP. A high proportion of the SNP would self define as socialists I think. What else separates. Yes the SNP can be a bit of a personality cult but if you are a socialist and believe in Scots independence why stop at the half way house?
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 6, 2013 17:11:48 GMT
Let's just ask 'Apart from the very key issue of independence' how much difference there is between Scottish Labour and the SNP. A high proportion of the SNP would self define as socialists I think. What else separates. Yes the SNP can be a bit of a personality cult but if you are a socialist and believe in Scots independence why stop at the half way house? The most obvious motivation is that if Labour can be persuaded to support independence, then the electorate will inevitably follow. And it is probably easier (though still difficult) to change Labour's policy on an issue from inside than it is from outside.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 6, 2013 17:49:00 GMT
It has also been asked, if independence was his reason for defection, why did he not join Labour for Independence? By the sounds of 'Labour for Independence', he just did!
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Post by erlend on Dec 6, 2013 18:28:35 GMT
How many members does Labour for Independence claim. Just thinking of those pictures from the summer where LfI stalls seemed to be being run by known SNP folk.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 18:31:58 GMT
Let's just ask 'Apart from the very key issue of independence' how much difference there is between Scottish Labour and the SNP. A high proportion of the SNP would self define as socialists I think. What else separates. Yes the SNP can be a bit of a personality cult but if you are a socialist and believe in Scots independence why stop at the half way house? The most obvious motivation is that if Labour can be persuaded to support independence, then the electorate will inevitably follow. And it is probably easier (though still difficult) to change Labour's policy on an issue from inside than it is from outside. I totally disagree.
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Post by erlend on Dec 6, 2013 18:35:35 GMT
Interesting views from outside Labour. Mine coincide with Joe's for the non underlined picture. Actually if Labour were in favour I think there would be a plurality for independence. But what would be cause and effect is another matter.
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 6, 2013 22:19:10 GMT
The most obvious motivation is that if Labour can be persuaded to support independence, then the electorate will inevitably follow. And it is probably easier (though still difficult) to change Labour's policy on an issue from inside than it is from outside. I totally disagree. With both the major parties in Scotland behind independence, the electorate will be a lot more easily persuaded of the case. Perhaps inevitably was overstating the case, but it's certainly plausible that somebody who is pro-independence could decide that working to change Labour's policy on the issue is the most effective way of achieving it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 8:28:23 GMT
I think it would provide about the only way for the tories to have a decent recovery in Scotland.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 10:14:23 GMT
With both the major parties in Scotland behind independence, the electorate will be a lot more easily persuaded of the case. Perhaps inevitably was overstating the case, but it's certainly plausible that somebody who is pro-independence could decide that working to change Labour's policy on the issue is the most effective way of achieving it. except I see no circumstance at all that Labour would ever be persuaded to support independence. So if someone's main political cause is independence the SNP is the party to be in.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 7, 2013 12:00:23 GMT
I think it would provide about the only way for the tories to have a decent recovery in Scotland. I think you underestimate the toxicity of the Tory brand. An anti-independence party of the left would be a much more likely beneficiary, although Labour embracing independence is vanishingly unlikely in any case.
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