Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 16:55:47 GMT
Probably for reasons of electoral gain in the manner as tories in Sefton and Lewisham have gone the other way.
One should restand, especially in somewhere like Borehamwood where we are always going to be in the running.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 16:57:26 GMT
Remember that the rather dodgy Frank Ward also left Hertsmere labour recently. Seems the group there is disintegrating somewhat.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 21, 2013 17:00:38 GMT
Though in actual fact Ward left/was chucked out of the party circa 2007 and certainly hasn't been a councillor since then (he has stood as an Independent, unsuccessfully, on quite a few occasions) so lumping him together with this latest development is just slightly disingenuous
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 17:02:04 GMT
Though in actual fact Ward left/was chucked out of the party circa 2007 and certainly hasn't been a councillor since then (he has stood as an Independent, unsuccessfully, on quite a few occasions) so lumping him together with this latest development is just slightly disingenuous Ah sorry - it was a genuine error though- not disingenuous.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 21, 2013 17:23:11 GMT
Which does make one suspect that the Tories may have offered her something. Probably, but the fact she was interested may suggest a certain sloppiness in terms of candidate selection.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 17:24:40 GMT
Which does make one suspect that the Tories may have offered her something. Probably, but the fact she was interested may suggest a certain sloppiness in terms of candidate selection. It might be hard to tell though. Could we have foretold that Bercow would end up where he currently is?
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Nov 22, 2013 14:30:20 GMT
There was certainly a Lib Dem Councillor on Carmarthenshire Council who, when the only Lib Dem on the Council, was affiliated with the main Independent Group (indies and Labour being the main Groups on the Council). Lib Dem officialdom took no action there, and certainly tacitly endorsed her action. As someone who had been active politically in her area a few years before, I think she took a sensible decision, and was able by this means to exert somewhat more influence than had she remained just one lone Councillor. The lone Labour councillor in Herefordshire would seem to be a similar case: councillors.herefordshire.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=28Lists party as Herefordshire Independants but describes himself as Leader of Labour group.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 15:28:24 GMT
No, Herefordshire Councillor Chris Chappell has resigned from Labour and is now an Independent Councillor. Herefordshire Council just haven't updated their website - i did report this at the time on twitter @colinross1975
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Post by psephos on Nov 22, 2013 16:44:09 GMT
Exactly. To the extent anybody should do anything about it, it's the parties selecting candidates, who have to make sure that the person they're selecting shares their values and isn't just using them to help get elected. But parties should be doing that regardless of ethnicity. With respect, this is utterly impossible with the people we are discussing. In a 99% white Cambridge ward, someone who's not a complete opportunist can always bve found; in 60% Asian wards, up and down the country, the following is inevitable - (a) anyone who's not Asian is going to lose, so won't get selected, (b) anyone who is Asian is going to lose, unless they tailor their plans as a councillor to the 40% BME community, and speficially shout the same from the rooftops, (c) once said opportunist is elected, chances are he'll (inevitably it's a he) be out of the Party in twelve months unless his community is pandered to and money thrown on a massive scale. It's the way these people work and it's revolting. And there seems to be no exception. Unless BME people start acting colour-blind and stop fixing up councils and council selections, they will be hated by anyone not their own colour. Short of disfranchising them - which frankly they deserve - there is no way of dealing with them other than throwing council cash at "community groups". And in an era of austerity, this is massively irresponsible.
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Post by Philip Davies on Nov 22, 2013 18:21:40 GMT
It didn't take me long to find quite a few Caucasian Councillors representing wards that are 60%+ Asian! And I only looked in Leicester.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 22, 2013 19:15:52 GMT
With respect, this is utterly impossible with the people we are discussing. In a 99% white Cambridge ward, someone who's not a complete opportunist can always bve found; in 60% Asian wards, up and down the country, the following is inevitable - (a) anyone who's not Asian is going to lose, so won't get selected, (b) anyone who is Asian is going to lose, unless they tailor their plans as a councillor to the 40% BME community, and speficially shout the same from the rooftops, (c) once said opportunist is elected, chances are he'll (inevitably it's a he) be out of the Party in twelve months unless his community is pandered to and money thrown on a massive scale. It's the way these people work and it's revolting. And there seems to be no exception. Unless BME people start acting colour-blind and stop fixing up councils and council selections, they will be hated by anyone not their own colour. Short of disfranchising them - which frankly they deserve - there is no way of dealing with them other than throwing council cash at "community groups". And in an era of austerity, this is massively irresponsible. No, but this doesn't seem like a discussion where you're particularly interested in observable fact.
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Post by timokane on Nov 22, 2013 19:30:43 GMT
Janet Storey, former Conservative Mayor, defecting to Independents and standing against me in the Clayton Le Moors ward in 2014.
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Post by timokane on Nov 22, 2013 19:32:25 GMT
Janet Storey, former Conservative Mayor, defecting to Independents and standing against me in the Clayton Le Moors ward in 2014. Should point out this is in Hyndburn.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 24, 2013 1:28:47 GMT
Which does make one suspect that the Tories may have offered her something. Alternatively . having seen local Labour in action at close quarters , she may have realised what a complete shower they are . Irrespective , she should of course resign her seat and stand as a Conservative in a by election . Local Labour people are of course calling for this to happen unlike when a councillor for another party defects to them . So why did she join the Tories? Just shows theres no real difference between LD and Tory these days . Oh and since when did defectors to the LDs seek a fresh election?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 3:50:29 GMT
Alternatively . having seen local Labour in action at close quarters , she may have realised what a complete shower they are . Irrespective , she should of course resign her seat and stand as a Conservative in a by election . Local Labour people are of course calling for this to happen unlike when a councillor for another party defects to them . So why did she join the Tories? Just shows theres no real difference between LD and Tory these days . Oh and since when did defectors to the LDs seek a fresh election? Mitcham and Morden 1982?
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tim13
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Post by tim13 on Nov 24, 2013 8:01:49 GMT
Mitcham and Morden was a Parliamentary defection, of course, in the early days of the SDP! Tell you what, why don't the guys here who bring up this subject of defectors seeking a new electoral mandate, go away and calculate for defections, over say the last 20 years, how many and which parties from and to, a new electoral mandate was sought by the defected person or his or her new party. See if there genuinely is any difference between parties? I would guesstimate the very highest percentage of those seeking would be 5%, and there would be no difference between parties of any significance. Then we can put it to bed once and for all!
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Post by erlend on Nov 24, 2013 10:25:18 GMT
Mark consistently advocates this even when the defection is to the Lib Dems. I consistently say it is a bad idea even when the defection is from us as it would give to much power to party whips.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 24, 2013 13:01:04 GMT
So why did she join the Tories? Just shows theres no real difference between LD and Tory these days . Oh and since when did defectors to the LDs seek a fresh election? Mitcham and Morden 1982? That was the SDP. Different party - of course he was the only one, and managed to lose too....
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 24, 2013 13:03:52 GMT
Mark consistently advocates this even when the defection is to the Lib Dems. I consistently say it is a bad idea even when the defection is from us as it would give to much power to party whips. I think I agree with you - the only time it can be problematic is if the defection leads to a change in party control, or enables a party to remain in control without an overall majority. It tends to backfire on them come the next election though - at least it certainly did in Liverpool, where the LibDems managed to recruit a former Militant supporter to defect after she had been deselected by Labour to enable them to struggle on for a further year before the night of the mass LD decapitations
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dazza
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Post by dazza on Nov 24, 2013 16:54:43 GMT
Bruce Douglas-Man resigned and lost to Angela Rumbold
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