johnr
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 1,944 
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Post by johnr on Oct 7, 2015 7:35:25 GMT
To be fair, Adonis' model of academisation was very different from the current one. Whereas the current model is mostly about making oversight impossible (with a little bit of empire-building as a side order), the Adonis model was about installing powerful heads and removing all curbs on their authority. Which was certainly effective in terms of raw results, but had rather more mixed outcomes if you looked a little deeper. Its very short termist - as they won't stay forever - and I have been a governor at a school where with the same head the rating was changed from outstanding to failed on subsequent OFSTED visits. The second one was clearly written before they had even visited the school - farcical political manipulation. The only significant change was a dip in maths results which could be entirely explained demographically - nothing else in the school had actually changed But thats a problem with OFSTED, not the Academy model. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 7, 2015 14:54:39 GMT
Its very short termist - as they won't stay forever - and I have been a governor at a school where with the same head the rating was changed from outstanding to failed on subsequent OFSTED visits. The second one was clearly written before they had even visited the school - farcical political manipulation. The only significant change was a dip in maths results which could be entirely explained demographically - nothing else in the school had actually changed But thats a problem with OFSTED, not the Academy model. No - OFSTED are being used to enforce the academy model on schools who had already rejected it. They are part of the same problem, and should both be abolished and replaced. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 7, 2015 14:58:08 GMT
I am unmoved by those who complain about vested interests having involvement in education while simultaneous championing the unbridled power of the state to interfere in education. I have little time for academies because they don't go anywhere near as far as I would like to see in bringing private organisations, and capital, into the provision of education. I think the exact opposite. I think the state should run education and there should be no private involvement at all. |
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 7, 2015 15:06:10 GMT
I am unmoved by those who complain about vested interests having involvement in education while simultaneous championing the unbridled power of the state to interfere in education. I have little time for academies because they don't go anywhere near as far as I would like to see in bringing private organisations, and capital, into the provision of education. I think the exact opposite. I think the state should run education and there should be no private involvement at all. The dulling hand of conformity coupled with the denial of parental rights , diversity and choice. Of course you do. |
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Post by greenchristian on Oct 7, 2015 16:46:01 GMT
I also think the Academy agenda is a bit rum. It is all about letting meddling do gooders with an agenda access public funds in exchange for a vision they have had of a pig in a poke. Often people like Catholics, Baptists and Muslims. I would feel far safer placing our trust in well proven publicly quoted companies with a long established record of service provision overseen by a sceptical board of directors and shareholders. Interesting point of view there. Since faith schools have had a reputation for providing good quality education for a lot longer than there have been Academies, it seems a bit odd to worry about introducing a few more of them. Meanwhile, there's quite a long record of some of those "well-proven" publicly quoted companies taking over public services and causing a big mess. Some of these companies then go on to get even more public sector contracts. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 7, 2015 16:58:16 GMT
I think the exact opposite. I think the state should run education and there should be no private involvement at all. The dulling hand of conformity coupled with the denial of parental rights , diversity and choice. Of course you do. I fail to see how the academy model helps parental rights - in general academisation dramatically curbs the ability of parents to have any influence over the running of the school. |
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 7, 2015 17:01:08 GMT
The dulling hand of conformity coupled with the denial of parental rights , diversity and choice. Of course you do. I fail to see how the academy model helps parental rights - in general academisation dramatically curbs the ability of parents to have any influence over the running of the school. well part of the sell was that they would be run by groups of parents who could club together and run their own school . Hasn't quite worked out like that. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,004
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 7, 2015 17:03:51 GMT
The dulling hand of conformity coupled with the denial of parental rights , diversity and choice. Of course you do. I fail to see how the academy model helps parental rights - in general academisation dramatically curbs the ability of parents to have any influence over the running of the school. Quite. As a local councillor I've been asked to raise issues about local schools, the parents presuming that as local councillors we can ask questions and intervene. Then I tell them it's an academy and the lowest level elected person who has any responsibility over them or any right to intervene is the Secretary of State. Do they not like that... Oh, and of course today Cameron said that he wants all schools to be academies and free schools. I hope Nicky Morgan has plenty of time on her hands... |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 6:11:52 GMT
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,297
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Post by maxque on Oct 8, 2015 6:28:59 GMT
Doesn't seem to be quite a loss. He sounds like a independent only liking Labour near local elections to get their label on the ballot. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 6:55:53 GMT
Quite so.
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Post by tonygreaves on Oct 8, 2015 8:59:03 GMT
Councillor running his own recycling programme...
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,890
Member is Online
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 8, 2015 10:06:28 GMT
Well many politicians have been recycling the same old shit for decades...
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 8, 2015 12:30:28 GMT
I also think the Academy agenda is a bit rum. It is all about letting meddling do gooders with an agenda access public funds in exchange for a vision they have had of a pig in a poke. Often people like Catholics, Baptists and Muslims. I would feel far safer placing our trust in well proven publicly quoted companies with a long established record of service provision overseen by a sceptical board of directors and shareholders. Interesting point of view there. Since faith schools have had a reputation for providing good quality education for a lot longer than there have been Academies, it seems a bit odd to worry about introducing a few more of them. Meanwhile, there's quite a long record of some of those "well-proven" publicly quoted companies taking over public services and causing a big mess. Some of these companies then go on to get even more public sector contracts. It's an interesting suggestion that faith schools have a better reputation. Some years ago in Devon, they were a disproportionate number of schools failing, in special measures etc. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 14:49:23 GMT
Dropped of the terror this morning, Harvest Festival, thanking God for his bounty, should they not be thanking the farmers, supermarkets, foodbanks and CAP. Faith Schools have a very bad reputation in some respects although those sort of people are now running orphanages and schools in Romania.
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Post by greenchristian on Oct 8, 2015 15:35:26 GMT
Interesting point of view there. Since faith schools have had a reputation for providing good quality education for a lot longer than there have been Academies, it seems a bit odd to worry about introducing a few more of them. Meanwhile, there's quite a long record of some of those "well-proven" publicly quoted companies taking over public services and causing a big mess. Some of these companies then go on to get even more public sector contracts. It's an interesting suggestion that faith schools have a better reputation. Some years ago in Devon, they were a disproportionate number of schools failing, in special measures etc. In most parts of the country, they do seem to have a better reputation. Hence certain parents starting to attend church in the run-up to the enrollment process. Obviously it isn't going to anywhere near universal. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 8, 2015 16:11:47 GMT
It's an interesting suggestion that faith schools have a better reputation. Some years ago in Devon, they were a disproportionate number of schools failing, in special measures etc. In most parts of the country, they do seem to have a better reputation. Hence certain parents starting to attend church in the run-up to the enrollment process. Obviously it isn't going to anywhere near universal. I wonder if anyone has done a study. When I worked for Devon CC, I heard all the time that church schools were better but the evidence contradicted that. Admittedly, it depends on what you're looking for, I don't particularly value the expressive arts for example. Maybe people like the moral ethos. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 8, 2015 18:44:05 GMT
In most parts of the country, they do seem to have a better reputation. Hence certain parents starting to attend church in the run-up to the enrollment process. Obviously it isn't going to anywhere near universal. I wonder if anyone has done a study. When I worked for Devon CC, I heard all the time that church schools were better but the evidence contradicted that. Admittedly, it depends on what you're looking for, I don't particularly value the expressive arts for example. Maybe people like the moral ethos. In my experience kids who have been to papist schools tend to have superior social skills and interact much better with their elders. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 8, 2015 19:32:55 GMT
In most parts of the country, they do seem to have a better reputation. Hence certain parents starting to attend church in the run-up to the enrollment process. Obviously it isn't going to anywhere near universal. I wonder if anyone has done a study. When I worked for Devon CC, I heard all the time that church schools were better but the evidence contradicted that. Admittedly, it depends on what you're looking for, I don't particularly value the expressive arts for example. Maybe people like the moral ethos. People like selection but can't bear to admit it. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 8, 2015 19:54:54 GMT
But enough about Labour MPs, eh  |
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