European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,570
Member is Online
|
Post by European Lefty on Oct 12, 2021 22:17:16 GMT
I can confirm it does, because I went to its graduation ceremony a few weeks ago, as my middle daughter Katie graduated from there (held over from 2020) in Baking & Nutrition. And now works in the R&D department of Fiona Cairns, the baking company that makes the Royal wedding cakes, or William and Kate's at least, as well as the cakes for Harrods and Waitrose. It's great when she comes back at weekends after a week spent trying out new ideas for products I didn't know that training in making cakes gets you a degree these days. Obviously the training is good, and your daughter has a good job as a result. But I'm not sure why this needs to be validated with a degree. That's one of the problems with Britain. We simply don't value skills properly. Part of the issue is that almost every job, except stacking shelves in a supermarket, demands a degree So an increasing number of people do degrees in things that shouldn't need degrees and unis offer an increasing number of silly degrees. It's also why free university tuition was such a popular policy amongst certain people, and it was much more popular amongst my friends who didn't go to uni because it would have made it easier for them to do so
|
|
|
Post by grahammurray on Oct 12, 2021 22:17:25 GMT
The article refers to the 3 Labour members of East Hants Council having resigned the group. I know that it was hinted on this site but was it ever confirmed? The Council site has two listed as "not specified" and the other one isn't mentioned at all - I'm not sure he was a councillor anyway. easthants.moderngov.co.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=PARTY&VW=LIST&PIC=0
|
|
|
Post by lackeroftalent on Oct 12, 2021 22:27:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 12, 2021 22:32:09 GMT
A defection in the defection sub section?🤯
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 13, 2021 10:43:17 GMT
I can confirm it does, because I went to its graduation ceremony a few weeks ago, as my middle daughter Katie graduated from there (held over from 2020) in Baking & Nutrition. And now works in the R&D department of Fiona Cairns, the baking company that makes the Royal wedding cakes, or William and Kate's at least, as well as the cakes for Harrods and Waitrose. It's great when she comes back at weekends after a week spent trying out new ideas for products I didn't know that training in making cakes gets you a degree these days. Obviously the training is good, and your daughter has a good job as a result. But I'm not sure why this needs to be validated with a degree. That's one of the problems with Britain. We simply don't value skills properly. But isn't a degree (particularly a vocational one like this) taken as a demonstration of skills. There's certainly a longstanding failure to take vocational training seriously, but arguably validating with a degree is a solution to this. There's an argument to be had about what format and duration such courses should take and whether validation by a professional body is better, but universities are effectively filling a gap in the market for skills recognition.
|
|
J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,668
|
Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 13, 2021 11:03:31 GMT
I didn't know that training in making cakes gets you a degree these days. Obviously the training is good, and your daughter has a good job as a result. But I'm not sure why this needs to be validated with a degree. That's one of the problems with Britain. We simply don't value skills properly. Part of the issue is that almost every job, except stacking shelves in a supermarket, demands a degree So an increasing number of people do degrees in things that shouldn't need degrees and unis offer an increasing number of silly degrees. It's also why free university tuition was such a popular policy amongst certain people, and it was much more popular amongst my friends who didn't go to uni because it would have made it easier for them to do so It's getting to the state of the "university" education my (ex)wife had in Taiwan. She has a Bachelor of Science in Textiles and Clothing. What that actually means is that she went to a trade school and was taught how to use a sewing machine, in preparation for working in a clothing factory.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,584
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Oct 13, 2021 13:30:03 GMT
I didn't know that training in making cakes gets you a degree these days. Obviously the training is good, and your daughter has a good job as a result. But I'm not sure why this needs to be validated with a degree. That's one of the problems with Britain. We simply don't value skills properly. But isn't a degree (particularly a vocational one like this) taken as a demonstration of skills. There's certainly a longstanding failure to take vocational training seriously, but arguably validating with a degree is a solution to this. There's an argument to be had about what format and duration such courses should take and whether validation by a professional body is better, but universities are effectively filling a gap in the market for skills recognition. The problem with relying on professional bodies to validate education and training is that most of them (bar Accountancy?) gave up on professional examinations twenty or thirty years ago, and much earlier in many cases. When I qualified as a Chartered Surveyor you had to take three sets of examinations over a five to six year period. Then the RICS started to accept degrees from some Universities to exempt the holder from taking the professional examinations. By the time that the Polytechnic sector started to offer degrees in the area of Construction and Surveying, few were taking the professional examination route to membership. So the RICS and the CIOB stopped running professional exams. The RIBA had ceased running professional examinations for Architects twenty years earlier. Similarly with the Chartered Engineering Institutions such as the ICE, IMechE, etc. They sure as hell ain’t going to start setting them up again. Most of these daft ideas come from crusty old reactionaries who want to see higher education restricted to 5-10% of school leavers.
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 13, 2021 14:05:46 GMT
I was thinking less about subjects suited to formal examination, and more about ones where professional certification is just a general marker of experience. For example, I've just finished a masters degree in librarianship, which taught me almost nothing I didn't know already, but which is a prerequisite for most employment in the sector beyond the lowest grades. CILIP certification tends to be substantially more useful in showing who does actually accomplish things in their role and is substantially cheaper, but it has less recognition so many places don't accept it as a substitute for a formal academic qualification.
|
|
cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 8,192
Member is Online
|
Post by cogload on Oct 13, 2021 15:04:47 GMT
The course I did at Uni 20 years ago was RICS accredited but you still had to do the APC and work towards that.
|
|
|
Post by owainsutton on Oct 13, 2021 15:54:58 GMT
I was thinking less about subjects suited to formal examination, and more about ones where professional certification is just a general marker of experience. For example, I've just finished a masters degree in librarianship, which taught me almost nothing I didn't know already, but which is a prerequisite for most employment in the sector beyond the lowest grades. CILIP certification tends to be substantially more useful in showing who does actually accomplish things in their role and is substantially cheaper, but it has less recognition so many places don't accept it as a substitute for a formal academic qualification. A historian wrote a history of my university (Manchester) for its 150th anniversary. A delightful piece from IIRC the v. early 20th century was about a particular controversy, over the introduction of a new degree which was regarded by many to lack the necessary rigour of 'proper' subjects, or that it was just pandering to fashionable trends. The subject in question? English Literature.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,584
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Oct 13, 2021 17:57:08 GMT
The course I did at Uni 20 years ago was RICS accredited but you still had to do the APC and work towards that. I avoided that as I took the professional examinations. We did have to submit a practical task involving a field survey and a house survey and all had to be drawn up indian ink and sent to the RICS for judgement. The house surveey was supposed to be a detached house. We lived in a semi, but I still used it, fiddling the survey and the drawings to look like it was a detached house. I did produce ink isometric drawings of the house. The chain survey of the field was more of a problem. I did this in Heaton Park in Manchester and produced the drawings. After than I re-did the survey effectively from the drawings to ensure no dicrepancies appeared. I took the precaution of wiping the notebook on grass to make it look authentic. Having completed the tasks, I was up against a tight deadline to get it through to the RICS in London. Along with a group of friends in the same position, we ended up driving down from Manchester to London to deliver it personally. The RICS sent it back to me after the examination process was complete. Someone 'borrowed' it from me to crib from it. I did get it back but someone else took it next and apparently passed it on to another. I never saw it again. I have no idea how many times it was reworked and submitted?
|
|
cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 8,192
Member is Online
|
Post by cogload on Oct 13, 2021 18:09:35 GMT
The course I did at Uni 20 years ago was RICS accredited but you still had to do the APC and work towards that. I avoided that as I took the professional examinations. We did have to submit a practical task involving a field survey and a house survey and all had to be drawn up indian ink and sent to the RICS for judgement. The house surveey was supposed to be a detached house. We lived in a semi, but I still used it, fiddling the survey and the drawings to look like it was a detached house. I did produce ink isometric drawings of the house. The chain survey of the field was more of a problem. I did this in Heaton Park in Manchester and produced the drawings. After than I re-did the survey effectively from the drawings to ensure no dicrepancies appeared. I took the precaution of wiping the notebook on grass to make it look authentic. Having completed the tasks, I was up against a tight deadline to get it through to the RICS in London. Along with a group of friends in the same position, we ended up driving down from Manchester to London to deliver it personally. The RICS sent it back to me after the examination process was complete. Someone 'borrowed' it from me to crib from it. I did get it back but someone else took it next and apparently passed it on to another. I never saw it again. I have no idea how many times it was reworked and submitted? I never did pursue the career. After Uni I applied for a few jobs but the going rate in rural practice was basically peanuts until the APC. The railway advertised offering more cash. The cash won.
|
|
|
Post by aintree92 on Oct 13, 2021 20:05:20 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 13, 2021 21:48:40 GMT
Camden: Lorna Russell (Fortune Green) from Labour to Green Party.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 6:29:33 GMT
Going back to the whole 'Uni' discussion (as we can't have a thread staying on topic now can we)
As an employer, as well as being doing the whole recruitment thing, seeing 'degree' in the quals section of an application form triggers a whole different set of Qs & assumptions than from time past. (& when the degree was taken as well).
# Used to be that getting onto a degree course was a sign of getting through a rigorous selection process. Still applies with some subjects, but now the exception rather than the rule. # The degree title sends out a message. 'Law', yup get that. 'Tourism Studies', really, you think that spending £30k on that was a good move ?? # Anyone who gets a 3rd never makes a shortlist or an interview, if you're bright, lose it off a CV go 'travelling'. A 2:2 has to have a good excuse.
So, the whole degree thing acts as a useful filter for me, even these days as they are good jobs to have, in terms of pay/ satisfaction/ development. All very subjective, but that's what recruitment is, despite all the HR guff.
|
|
|
Post by froome on Oct 14, 2021 8:01:02 GMT
Going back to the defections discussion (as we can't have a thread staying off-topic can we : It will be interesting to see if she stands again next year in Fortune Green, which isn't a ward we've got very far in before, and will be a Lib Dem target. It should make it an interesting one to watch.
|
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Oct 14, 2021 9:16:43 GMT
I took the precaution of wiping the notebook on grass to make it look authentic. A vicar of my acquaintance, who was a surveyor in a previous life, did exactly that. I wonder how common it was.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,616
|
Post by The Bishop on Oct 14, 2021 12:12:58 GMT
Was "Cumbria" not seen as a takeover of the other constituent areas by Cumberland? If so, it should not be surprising if there was no resentment from the town where Cumberland pencils came from. I honestly don't think that the notion of Cumbria is even resented by the people of Westmorland. Along the Furness coast it's still not fully accepted. That's lot to do with many of the residents there having come from Lancashire and the fact that the county seat is now miles (and hours) away. In Sedbergh they won't be content until they're in the same county again as Middlesbrough and Saddleworth. Hmmm, up to a point perhaps. The concept of Westmorland still remains pretty strong amongst many locals I would say.
|
|
Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,334
|
Post by Tony Otim on Oct 14, 2021 12:54:35 GMT
Going back to the defections discussion (as we can't have a thread staying off-topic can we : It will be interesting to see if she stands again next year in Fortune Green, which isn't a ward we've got very far in before, and will be a Lib Dem target. It should make it an interesting one to watch. We didn't even stand in the recent by-election there...
|
|
|
Post by lackeroftalent on Oct 14, 2021 21:35:00 GMT
I really want to know more but so far been unsuccessful in finding out if this is a defection to the Socialist Party, Socialist Alliance, Socialist Labour Party or if it is Neil's own private thing?
Councillor Neil Ploughman - Belper Central, Amber Valley Elected: 2019 as Labour. Affiliation on Council website: Socialist
|
|