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Post by iainbhx on Oct 11, 2021 19:44:12 GMT
Which is a little odd given that the Boroughs of Tipton and Wednesbury had both been abolished in 1966 and incorporated into the County Borough of West Bromwich. The 1974 change was basically a merger of the County Borough of West Bromwich and the County Borough of Warley, the later having only been formed in 1966 by the merger of Smethwick, Oldbury and Rowley Regis. There really was no good reason not to call the authority West Bromwich MBC. It really was no different to allowing a Dudley MBC that extended far beyond the town of Dudley or a Walsall MBC that extended well beyond the town of Walsall. One difference being Sandwell was a merger of equals, whereas Dudley was the only existing county borough to form part of the new metropolitan borough. Stourbridge and Halesowen were lowly municipal boroughs, and so the conventions of the time seemingly allowed them to be completely ignored in the naming process. Likewise with Walsall and Aldridge. The problem with the various Black Country Boroughs is that they all actively disliked each other - unless the Brummies are poking their nose in. There was even a petition against the world's most useless UDC Amblecote being merged with Stourbridge.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Oct 11, 2021 20:37:34 GMT
Which is a little odd given that the Boroughs of Tipton and Wednesbury had both been abolished in 1966 and incorporated into the County Borough of West Bromwich. The 1974 change was basically a merger of the County Borough of West Bromwich and the County Borough of Warley, the later having only been formed in 1966 by the merger of Smethwick, Oldbury and Rowley Regis. There really was no good reason not to call the authority West Bromwich MBC. It really was no different to allowing a Dudley MBC that extended far beyond the town of Dudley or a Walsall MBC that extended well beyond the town of Walsall. Absolutely, totally agree. When I was on the council, we argued for renaming the Borough West Bromwich partly on the grounds that then people would know where it was, but the argument in response was what I outlined above Probably because they have a football team?
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iang
Lib Dem
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Post by iang on Oct 11, 2021 20:39:41 GMT
Absolutely, totally agree. When I was on the council, we argued for renaming the Borough West Bromwich partly on the grounds that then people would know where it was, but the argument in response was what I outlined above Probably because they have a football team? Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell
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Post by owainsutton on Oct 11, 2021 21:02:38 GMT
Probably because they have a football team? Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Football definitely helps with the awareness of where Trafford is for people outside of the area.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Oct 11, 2021 21:50:46 GMT
Probably because they have a football team? Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities.
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Post by london(ex)tory on Oct 11, 2021 22:06:52 GMT
Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Football definitely helps with the awareness of where Trafford is for people outside of the area. Combination of football teams, council elections and marginal constituencies makes my U.K. geography 100 times better than it would otherwise be. A few years ago I’d get my work colleagues to pick a district council at random and I’d reply with the county it’s in, the (then) current control and the electoral cycle (whole / thirds etc).
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Post by greenchristian on Oct 11, 2021 22:16:33 GMT
Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities. Coventry University may be an ex-polytechnic, but it's definitely become a real university now.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Oct 11, 2021 22:19:37 GMT
Salford. Some of its inhabitants are more Mancs than the Mancs, whereas some resent being in Salford at all! The met boroughs have a lot of this given that a fair few are arbitrary groupings on a map, with zero identity. Trafford or Tameside as prime examples. People in Stretford, Urmston, Audenshaw or Droylsden would consider themselves to be Mancunians. Elsewhere, I've never met anyone from the Borough of Gedling who doesn't say they're from Nottingham. I work with someone from Stretford who would say north Trafford over Mcr, weirdly enough. Oh, wait until you meet one of the ones from West Chorlton.
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European Lefty
Labour
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Post by European Lefty on Oct 11, 2021 23:08:19 GMT
Football definitely helps with the awareness of where Trafford is for people outside of the area. Combination of football teams, council elections and marginal constituencies makes my U.K. geography 100 times better than it would otherwise be.A few years ago I’d get my work colleagues to pick a district council at random and I’d reply with the county it’s in, the (then) current control and the electoral cycle (whole / thirds etc). Ditto plus archaeological sites and rugby teams
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 11, 2021 23:42:20 GMT
I work with someone from Stretford who would say north Trafford over Mcr, weirdly enough. Oh, wait until you meet one of the ones from West Chorlton. West Chorlton!? Not sure that's a place, lmao.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Oct 12, 2021 5:24:05 GMT
Oh, wait until you meet one of the ones from West Chorlton. West Chorlton!? Not sure that's a place, lmao. There are people in Whalley Range who claim to live in North Chorlton, which is even more absurd.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
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Post by Chris from Brum on Oct 12, 2021 6:33:58 GMT
Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities. Birmingham has 4, possibly, 5 universities, there being University of Birmingham (the redbrick one), Aston (the mid-20th century one), Birmingham City University (the former poly), and Newman University (former Catholic teacher training college now upgraded). The question mark is over University College Birmingham, once the College of Food and Domestic Arts (it has had other names since), as I'm not sure whether it awards its own degrees.
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ilerda
Conservative
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Post by ilerda on Oct 12, 2021 7:13:03 GMT
Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities. Coventry University may be an ex-polytechnic, but it's definitely become a real university now. I think the .5 probably refers to Warwick, with its campus only half in the city boundary.
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Post by Yaffles on Oct 12, 2021 7:21:27 GMT
Coventry University may be an ex-polytechnic, but it's definitely become a real university now. I think the .5 probably refers to Warwick, with its campus only half in the city boundary. I think Birmingham technically has 5 universities
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Post by Yaffles on Oct 12, 2021 7:22:38 GMT
Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities. Birmingham has 4, possibly, 5 universities, there being University of Birmingham (the redbrick one), Aston (the mid-20th century one), Birmingham City University (the former poly), and Newman University (former Catholic teacher training college now upgraded). The question mark is over University College Birmingham, once the College of Food and Domestic Arts (it has had other names since), as I'm not sure whether it awards its own degrees. Beat me to it - always check the thread!
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Oct 12, 2021 8:53:16 GMT
Coventry University may be an ex-polytechnic, but it's definitely become a real university now. I think the .5 probably refers to Warwick, with its campus only half in the city boundary. Correct. It was designed to be just that. Coventry and Warwickshire donated the land. Unfortunately they called it the University of Warwick on the insistence of Warwickshire. That has caused confusion ever since with people thinking that it was in Warwick. In some cases visitors would get a train to Warwick station and then phone up to ask how to get to the University! That would generally have been to get a train back to Birmingham and then another to Coventry. Aston University suffered similarly as some visitors would get a train out to Aston station and then phone for directions. Train back into New Street and then a ten minute walk was the usual advice. I guess that when the Birmingham College of Advances Technology received University status in 1966, they picked Aston as a name because people would associate it with Birmingham because of the football team. The problem was that it wasn’t in Aston.
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Post by yellowperil on Oct 12, 2021 9:02:56 GMT
I think the .5 probably refers to Warwick, with its campus only half in the city boundary. Correct. It was designed to be just that. Coventry and Warwickshire donated the land. Unfortunately they called it the University of Warwick on the insistence of Warwickshire. That has caused confusion ever since with people thinking that it was in Warwick. In some cases visitors would get a train to Warwick station and then phone up to ask how to get to the University! That would generally have been to get a train back to Birmingham and then another to Coventry. Aston University suffered similarly as some visitors would get a train out to Aston station and then phone for directions. Train back into New Street and then a ten minute walk was the usual advice. I guess that when the Birmingham College of Advances Technology received University status in 1966, they picked Aston as a name because people would associate it with Birmingham because of the football team. The problem was that it wasn’t in Aston. Which is a pity as I was thinking Aston was doing pretty well in the John07 test of geographical entity having both a well known football team and university
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Post by grahammurray on Oct 12, 2021 9:07:07 GMT
Essentially yes. May sound trivial, but it meant people were aware of West Bromwich where they weren't aware of Sandwell Two things go a long way to define a geographical entity. One is having a football team, the other is to have a University. Without either you will struggle to gain recognition. It’s all about identity. Of the ten boroughs in Greater Manchester, all have a League football team apart from Stockport (County are in the National League) and Bury (following recent liquidation of Bury FC). Manchester (x2), Salford, and Bolton have Universities. In the West Midlands, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Birmingham (x2), Walsall, and Coventry all have league football teams. Solihull and Dudley do not. Birmingham (x3), Wolverhampton, and Coventry (x1.5) have Universities. Tameside doesn't have a football team using those criteria. Trafford does, but I don't think it gives the borough an identity, ditto Sandwell. If anything, Trafford's team is famous for giving a neighbouring borough an identity internationally. I can think of a whole list of places with neither a uni or a football team but a definite identity: Wakefield, anywhere in Cumbria apart from Carlisle, Gateshead, Warrington, Dudley etc I would really love to accompany someone walking around St Helens while they were telling the locals that they had no identity. Hammersmith abd Fulham
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Post by John Chanin on Oct 12, 2021 9:09:34 GMT
I think the .5 probably refers to Warwick, with its campus only half in the city boundary. Correct. It was designed to be just that. Coventry and Warwickshire donated the land. Unfortunately they called it the University of Warwick on the insistence of Warwickshire. That has caused confusion ever since with people thinking that it was in Warwick. Although most of the 1960s campus universities were named after the county, eg Sussex, Essex, Surrey, Kent rather than Brighton, Colchester, Guildford, Canterbury. York and Lancaster of course avoided the issue.
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ilerda
Conservative
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Post by ilerda on Oct 12, 2021 9:11:49 GMT
This speaks to a wider point of people knowing somewhere exists, but that not necessarily meaning they know where it is.
I would suggest that most people have heard of West Bromwich, but besides knowing it's vaguely near Birmingham I don't think many would actually be able to identify it on a map or tell you how to get there.
When it comes to naming local authorities, what is actually important? Is outside knowledge of its location based on its name really an issue for many people? Surely it's better to prioritise a name that satisfies the (possibly competing) demands and identities of the local population. Confusion amongst a few amateur psephologists and journalists come election time isn't something I would lose sleep over.
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