Local Council By-elections 12th/13th December

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2018 11:30:32 GMT carlton43 said:

Dec 14, 2018 11:18:24 GMT timmullen1 said:

Dee and Glenkens first count:

That is a good TO and an excellent Conservative first round.  You chaps just don't know or understand that area at all do you?

Fantastic, I love Galloway 😄. I know Wigtownshire better than Kirkcudbrightshire, but having roots in this area I know it pretty well and was puzzled why everyone expected an independent gain.

[timmullen1]

Stage 2: @ballotboxscotland not Tweeting as it’s “uninteresting”. If nobody else does I’ll try and look elsewhere shortly.

Stage 3:

[yellowperil]

Is there anyone out there who knows the Wyper story? Available information at present was that he was the councillor in the Dee bit for 5 years to 2017, then didn't seek re-election, allegedly because he was getting bored with it. Many of us I think assumed that the fact he'd decided to stand again meant he had got his mojo back, but maybe he was persuaded to stand and his heart still wasn't really in it? Or was it the new boundaries, and so needing to campaign outside his home patch?

[timmullen1]

Conservative HOLD in Dee and Glenkens

[yellowperil]

I'm still trying to understand what happened in Dee & Glenkens, seeing we collectively have been accused of not understanding the area.Nobody has yet responded to my challenge to explain what happened to Mr Wyper, though having re-read the Gospel according to St Andrew, I see he cites an "extreme case of disillusionment" when he (Wyper)stood down in 2017.Yet in 2012 he had been elected at the first stage, well above quota, and with roughly twice the vote of the second independent who is now the councillor for the patch. Had he simply not enjoyed the councillor experience? If so,why was he persuaded to try again this time?

Then there is the issue of the change to the ward boundaries. Dee, the old ward, covered only the southern part of the ward where the main settlements were Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse of Fleet. Was Colin Wyper, the caravan park manager , much happier in this broadly coastal strip? Generally it looks as though the old ward generally split fairly evenly three ways between Tory, Indy and SNP, until Wyper had come along and gobbled up quite a chunk of the SDP vote. The other ward incorporated into this new much larger ward was Castle Douglas & Glenkens, comprising the main settlements of Castle Douglas and New Galloway and I seem to remember a lovely great stretch of the Galloway Forest. The area seems much more clearcut Tory/SNP split, with less sign of Indies around. Was that the problem for Mr Wyper?

Still hoping somebody local-ish- more local than Kent, anyway, can fill us in on this.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2018 15:15:51 GMT yellowperil said:

I'm still trying to understand what happened in Dee & Glenkens, seeing we collectively have been accused of not understanding the area.Nobody has yet responded to my challenge to explain what happened to Mr Wyper, though having re-read the Gospel according to St Andrew, I see he cites an "extreme case of disillusionment" when he (Wyper)stood down in 2017.Yet in 2012 he had been elected at the first stage, well above quota, and with roughly twice the vote of the second independent who is now the councillor for the patch. Had he simply not enjoyed the councillor experience? If so,why was he persuaded to try again this time?

Then there is the issue of the change to the ward boundaries. Dee, the old ward, covered only the southern part of the ward where the main settlements were Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse of Fleet. Was Colin Wyper, the caravan park manager , much happier in this broadly coastal strip? Generally it looks as though the old ward generally split fairly evenly three ways between Tory, Indy and SNP, until Wyper had come along and gobbled up quite a chunk of the SDP vote. The other ward incorporated into this new much larger ward was Castle Douglas & Glenkens, comprising the main settlements of Castle Douglas and New Galloway and I seem to remember a lovely great stretch of the Galloway Forest. The area seems much more clearcut Tory/SNP split, with less sign of Indies around. Was that the problem for Mr Wyper?

Still hoping somebody local-ish- more local than Kent, anyway, can fill us in on this.

2012 was a long time ago in Scottish politics, and the Conservatives were far weaker then. Perhaps things have simply moved on?

[carlton43]

Dec 14, 2018 15:37:46 GMT Sandy said:

Dec 14, 2018 15:15:51 GMT yellowperil said:

I'm still trying to understand what happened in Dee & Glenkens, seeing we collectively have been accused of not understanding the area.Nobody has yet responded to my challenge to explain what happened to Mr Wyper, though having re-read the Gospel according to St Andrew, I see he cites an "extreme case of disillusionment" when he (Wyper)stood down in 2017.Yet in 2012 he had been elected at the first stage, well above quota, and with roughly twice the vote of the second independent who is now the councillor for the patch. Had he simply not enjoyed the councillor experience? If so,why was he persuaded to try again this time?

Then there is the issue of the change to the ward boundaries. Dee, the old ward, covered only the southern part of the ward where the main settlements were Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse of Fleet. Was Colin Wyper, the caravan park manager , much happier in this broadly coastal strip? Generally it looks as though the old ward generally split fairly evenly three ways between Tory, Indy and SNP, until Wyper had come along and gobbled up quite a chunk of the SDP vote. The other ward incorporated into this new much larger ward was Castle Douglas & Glenkens, comprising the main settlements of Castle Douglas and New Galloway and I seem to remember a lovely great stretch of the Galloway Forest. The area seems much more clearcut Tory/SNP split, with less sign of Indies around. Was that the problem for Mr Wyper?

Still hoping somebody local-ish- more local than Kent, anyway, can fill us in on this.

2012 was a long time ago in Scottish politics, and the Conservatives were far weaker then. Perhaps things have simply moved on?

In essence this is a very stable and conservative area in all senses. It is quite middle class and conformist. It had also had a history of being fairly Conservative for those reasons and for Unionist and rural/agricultural reasons. When Dumfries/Galloway slipped away like so much else from the Conservatives old habits were broken and secondary alignments took over to block an opponent. Many Conservatives started to vote LD or Labour or dallied with a plausible looking independent, as a defence to the SNP. When the SNP then cleared the decks and won virtually everything it was as if the default positions were all re-set by a few decades and this was very apparent in the Highlands, NE and SW as by-elections and the GE showed. We had a by-election here a couple of years ago and some in the Highlands where the competition people have been way out in assessments. I surmise that the independent queered his pitch by being just too outspoken and jaundiced in his previous attitude, but in a ward where it would be noticed and remembered by a lot of the electorate, as it has now shewn. That sort of attitude would not be well received at all by dwellers in stone villas with scrubbed steps and whitened edges! If anything the new bit is less Conservative than Kirkcudbright and environs. The Glenkens/Glen Trool bit is often wild and very remote. 

[yellowperil]

Dec 14, 2018 16:16:24 GMT carlton43 said:

Dec 14, 2018 15:37:46 GMT Sandy said:

2012 was a long time ago in Scottish politics, and the Conservatives were far weaker then. Perhaps things have simply moved on?

In essence this is a very stable and conservative area in all senses. It is quite middle class and conformist. It had also had a history of being fairly Conservative for those reasons and for Unionist and rural/agricultural reasons. When Dumfries/Galloway slipped away like so much else from the Conservatives old habits were broken and secondary alignments took over to block an opponent. Many Conservatives started to vote LD or Labour or dallied with a plausible looking independent, as a defence to the SNP. When the SNP then cleared the decks and won virtually everything it was as if the default positions were all re-set by a few decades and this was very apparent in the Highlands, NE and SW as by-elections and the GE showed. We had a by-election here a couple of years ago and some inthank you for your insights into  the Highlands where the competition people have been way out in assessments. I surmise that the independent queered his pitch by being just too outspoken and jaundiced in his previous attitude, but in a ward where it would be noticed and remembered by a lot of the electorate, as it has now shewn. That sort of attitude would not be well received at all by dwellers in stone villas with scrubbed steps and whitened edges! If anything the new bit is less Conservative than Kirkcudbright and environs. The Glenkens/Glen Trool bit is often wild and very remote. 

That bit I remember well from previous visits, but that hardly helped me to assess the local politics! Thank you for giving your assessments of what is going on here- I'm not sure I buy all of that, which obviously has a certain spin on it,  but have to admit it fits the facts of this result at this moment. I have a feeling that Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse have a certain arty non-conformist vibe in some quarters which might run counter to the  general conservative feel of the majority?

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2018 16:47:25 GMT yellowperil said:

Dec 14, 2018 16:16:24 GMT carlton43 said:

In essence this is a very stable and conservative area in all senses. It is quite middle class and conformist. It had also had a history of being fairly Conservative for those reasons and for Unionist and rural/agricultural reasons. When Dumfries/Galloway slipped away like so much else from the Conservatives old habits were broken and secondary alignments took over to block an opponent. Many Conservatives started to vote LD or Labour or dallied with a plausible looking independent, as a defence to the SNP. When the SNP then cleared the decks and won virtually everything it was as if the default positions were all re-set by a few decades and this was very apparent in the Highlands, NE and SW as by-elections and the GE showed. We had a by-election here a couple of years ago and some inthank you for your insights into  the Highlands where the competition people have been way out in assessments. I surmise that the independent queered his pitch by being just too outspoken and jaundiced in his previous attitude, but in a ward where it would be noticed and remembered by a lot of the electorate, as it has now shewn. That sort of attitude would not be well received at all by dwellers in stone villas with scrubbed steps and whitened edges! If anything the new bit is less Conservative than Kirkcudbright and environs. The Glenkens/Glen Trool bit is often wild and very remote. 

That bit I remember well from previous visits, but that hardly helped me to assess the local politics! Thank you for giving your assessments of what is going on here- I'm not sure I buy all of that, which obviously has a certain spin on it,  but have to admit it fits the facts of this result at this moment. I have a feeling that Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse have a certain arty non-conformist vibe in some quarters which might run counter to the  general conservative feel of the majority?

That's certainly the case in Wigtown nowadays, no doubt aided by the complete takeover of the town by bloody bookshops. I haven't been to Kirkcudbright for a number of years, so not sure how it compares.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Dec 14, 2018 18:37:03 GMT @barnabymarder said:

Bookshops seems a strange thing even for a Conservative to moan about. Would you prefer bookies, charity shops or barbers?

Not really an either-or though, is it?  I think it's relatively reasonable to bemoan diversity being lost on the High Street, even if it is to independent stores.

My home town acquired four new bars and, good as they are (well, some of them), lost its only bakery, shoe shop, and golf shop, and both car-part shops turned into restaurants.  

[gwynthegriff]

Dec 14, 2018 18:45:12 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

Dec 14, 2018 18:37:03 GMT @barnabymarder said:

Bookshops seems a strange thing even for a Conservative to moan about. Would you prefer bookies, charity shops or barbers?

Not really an either-or though, is it?  I think it's relatively reasonable to bemoan diversity being lost on the High Street, even if it is to independent stores.

My home town acquired four new bars and, good as they are (well, some of them), lost its only bakery, shoe shop, and golf shop, and both car-part shops turned into restaurants.  

Oh the humanity!

[finsobruce]

Dec 14, 2018 18:37:03 GMT @barnabymarder said:

Bookshops seems a strange thing even for a Conservative to moan about. Would you prefer bookies, charity shops or barbers?

Wigtown was designated as Scotland's official booktown in 1998. There are at least fourteen bookshops.

[Sibboleth]

Second hand and antiquarian for the most part, of course. Though actually the best bookshop of that type in the area isn't in Wigtown, but a few miles away in Gatehouse of Fleet.

[andrewteale]

Dec 14, 2018 15:15:51 GMT yellowperil said:

I'm still trying to understand what happened in Dee & Glenkens, seeing we collectively have been accused of not understanding the area.Nobody has yet responded to my challenge to explain what happened to Mr Wyper, though having re-read the Gospel according to St Andrew, I see he cites an "extreme case of disillusionment" when he (Wyper)stood down in 2017.Yet in 2012 he had been elected at the first stage, well above quota, and with roughly twice the vote of the second independent who is now the councillor for the patch. Had he simply not enjoyed the councillor experience? If so,why was he persuaded to try again this time?

Then there is the issue of the change to the ward boundaries. Dee, the old ward, covered only the southern part of the ward where the main settlements were Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse of Fleet. Was Colin Wyper, the caravan park manager , much happier in this broadly coastal strip? Generally it looks as though the old ward generally split fairly evenly three ways between Tory, Indy and SNP, until Wyper had come along and gobbled up quite a chunk of the SDP vote. The other ward incorporated into this new much larger ward was Castle Douglas & Glenkens, comprising the main settlements of Castle Douglas and New Galloway and I seem to remember a lovely great stretch of the Galloway Forest. The area seems much more clearcut Tory/SNP split, with less sign of Indies around. Was that the problem for Mr Wyper?

Still hoping somebody local-ish- more local than Kent, anyway, can fill us in on this.

The only major change to this ward in 2017 was the addition of the Glenkens area based on New Galloway. Castle Douglas was and remains the centre of a separate ward.

Wyper is based in Kirkcudbright.

[heslingtonian]

I know the Kirkcudbright area well as I have family who have lived in the area. I would say the town itself although artistic, has demographics which are broadly supportive for the Conservatives. Firstly, there’s a great deal of bungalows on the outskirts of the town on all sides and a largely elderly population in these areas who will strongly outnumber any artistic types who will probably live in the historic centre of the town around High Street and McClellan’s Castle. As we know retired, largely middle class voters are likely Conservatives in most cases.

Secondly, the town is strongly Unionist and Protestant. Rangers fans easily outnumber Celtic fans and the firmly Unionist vote has moved back to the Conservatives in recent years.

Thirdly, the town also has a considerable number of retired English people living there. This also should be a help to the Conservatives especially when the main alternative is the SNP who are not especially known for their following among English people, even those who have chosen to live in Scotland.

Add these three components to the fact that there’s loyal farming support for the Conservatives in the countryside which surrounds Kirkcudbright and Gatehouse and I think this explains the area’s politics.

Kirkcudbright is also known for being used in the Wicker Man film and the outgoing councillor who resigned and caused the by-election is the landowner where the Wicker Man festival is now held. The film starred Christopher Lee who in real life was a big Conservative supporter and Edward Woodward who was a big Liberal Democrat. Rather contrast to the sort of characters they played in the film.

[Sibboleth]

Dec 14, 2018 19:38:38 GMT andrewteale said:

The only major change to this ward in 2017 was the addition of the Glenkens area based on New Galloway.

And note that, while geographically large, only about three people live there. One of the prettiest parts of Scotland, as it happens.

[carlton43]

Dec 14, 2018 19:33:24 GMT finsobruce said:

Dec 14, 2018 18:37:03 GMT @barnabymarder said:

Bookshops seems a strange thing even for a Conservative to moan about. Would you prefer bookies, charity shops or barbers?

Wigtown was designated as Scotland's official booktown in 1998. There are at least fourteen bookshops.

Wigtown is an extraordinary place by-passed by road and rail and the 20thC. It is virtually a one street small village that was semi-important when a main road went to a ferry at the bottom of a hill. It must have been one of the smallest county towns in Britain and an odd place to have chosen to name an area. On a busy day in book fair in can still look shut. The pubs are poor to bad. There are only a couple of good bookshops with one containing an excellent cafe. But most of the time it is very quiet indeed and rather depressing and of no consequence to anything at all, unlike the much larger Kirkcudbright. It is a bit arty crafty but Kirkcudbright isn't at all unless viewed on a cursory visit as a tourist and certainly one of the last places I would deem to be non-conformist.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2018 18:37:03 GMT @barnabymarder said:

Bookshops seems a strange thing even for a Conservative to moan about. Would you prefer bookies, charity shops or barbers?

The problem is that as the rest of the town has died, these bloody things have continued to flourish like an invasive weed. The bank, one of the grocers, the butchers, the chip shop are all gone, while about 20 sodding bookshops, which do nothing for the real locals fill their places.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2018 21:12:23 GMT carlton43 said:

Dec 14, 2018 19:33:24 GMT finsobruce said:

Wigtown was designated as Scotland's official booktown in 1998. There are at least fourteen bookshops.

Wigtown is an extraordinary place by-passed by road and rail and the 20thC. It is virtually a one street small village that was semi-important when a main road went to a ferry at the bottom of a hill. It must have been one of the smallest county towns in Britain and an odd place to have chosen to name an area. On a busy day in book fair in can still look shut. The pubs are poor to bad. There are only a couple of good bookshops with one containing an excellent cafe. But most of the time it is very quiet indeed and rather depressing and of no consequence to anything at all, unlike the much larger Kirkcudbright. It is a bit arty crafty but Kirkcudbright isn't at all unless viewed on a cursory visit as a tourist and certainly one of the last places I would deem to be non-conformist.

My Great Uncle once owned two of the Wigtown pubs, both are still in operation but no longer in the family.

Which is probably why they are poor to bad now!!!!

[J.G.Harston]

Dec 14, 2018 21:12:23 GMT carlton43 said:

Dec 14, 2018 19:33:24 GMT finsobruce said:

Wigtown was designated as Scotland's official booktown in 1998. There are at least fourteen bookshops.

Wigtown is an extraordinary place by-passed by road and rail and the 20thC. It is virtually a one street small village that was semi-important when a main road went to a ferry at the bottom of a hill. It must have been one of the smallest county towns in Britain and an odd place to have chosen to name an area. On a busy day in book fair in can still look shut. The pubs are poor to bad. There are only a couple of good bookshops with one containing an excellent cafe. But most of the time it is very quiet indeed and rather depressing and of no consequence to anything at all, unlike the much larger Kirkcudbright. It is a bit arty crafty but Kirkcudbright isn't at all unless viewed on a cursory visit as a tourist and certainly one of the last places I would deem to be non-conformist.

You think Wigtown is parochial? I have a friend who grew up in Garlieston. At least Wigtown has an A road.