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Post by uthacalthing on Jul 28, 2024 10:41:09 GMT
Though they aren't (unlike Foreman) described as such on Wikipedia (it is frustrating I don't have my 1997 Guardian pullout of the results to hand at present) I definitely seem to recall there was another "New Labour" candidate in Hackney South and Shoreditch who (as in Cardiff S) saved their deposit. One reason for this is that I remember Brian Sedgemore indignantly describing how one voter had actually tried to eat their ballot paper after realising they had voted for the "wrong" candidate. If it was not yet in the box, he had not yet voted, and could ask for a new paper. If it was in the box he could not eat it. How do you spell Apocraphl?
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 28, 2024 10:42:09 GMT
Though they aren't (unlike Foreman) described as such on Wikipedia (it is frustrating I don't have my 1997 Guardian pullout of the results to hand at present) I definitely seem to recall there was another "New Labour" candidate in Hackney South and Shoreditch who (as in Cardiff S) saved their deposit. One reason for this is that I remember Brian Sedgemore indignantly describing how one voter had actually tried to eat their ballot paper after realising they had voted for the "wrong" candidate. Terry Betts. The newspapers certainly have him listed as 'New Labour'.
Here is the whole thing from Hansard.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 28, 2024 10:50:55 GMT
Though they aren't (unlike Foreman) described as such on Wikipedia (it is frustrating I don't have my 1997 Guardian pullout of the results to hand at present) I definitely seem to recall there was another "New Labour" candidate in Hackney South and Shoreditch who (as in Cardiff S) saved their deposit. One reason for this is that I remember Brian Sedgemore indignantly describing how one voter had actually tried to eat their ballot paper after realising they had voted for the "wrong" candidate. If it was not yet in the box, he had not yet voted, and could ask for a new paper. If it was in the box he could not eat it. How do you spell Apocraphl? It was a woman, not a man. Sedgemore related the story in Parliament, see my link to Hansard.
Whether it was true or not...who knows.
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Post by uthacalthing on Jul 28, 2024 10:56:47 GMT
An old lady at yet another polling station, who realised that she had mistakenly put her cross against Betts's name, ate her ballot paper rather than placing it into the ballot box. In a long political career, people have done many things to come to my defence, but none of them had been so heroic as to eat their ballot paper.
Ok that takes the biscuit
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,759
Member is Online
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 28, 2024 11:05:59 GMT
It was a woman, not a man. Sedgemore related the story in Parliament, see my link to Hansard. Whether it was true or not...who knows. On the one hand Sedgemore's anecdotes do often have the tone of a fabulist, but on the other a seemingly excessively colourful anecdote about his time as a civil servant in the MHLG in the 1960s - the one about Bob Mellish ceremonially flushing a toilet in a new tower block and making a despairing remark to Sedgemore that the department was building slums in the sky - that he sent into a newspaper as a letter in retirement does appear to be pretty plausible.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,759
Member is Online
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 28, 2024 11:08:34 GMT
There was also a 'New Labour' candidate in Cannock: Tony Wright was still annoyed about this when he wrote his Very Short Introduction to British Politics for the OUP, though said candidate lost his deposit.
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Post by batman on Jul 28, 2024 11:23:52 GMT
I've been thinking about this myself. I think he does extremely well in Heathrow Villages, but less so in relation to an official Labour candidate further north in the constituency. Why in Heathrow villages especially? I think he is particularly personally popular in that part of the constituency because he is given credit for his strong campaigning to save the villages from being bulldozed to make another runway. The further away one gets from Heathrow within the constituency, the less salient the issue is. His personal results however have not been exactly scintillating in the last 2 or 3 elections.
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 28, 2024 11:29:12 GMT
There was also a 'New Labour' candidate in Cannock: Tony Wright was still annoyed about this when he wrote his Very Short Introduction to British Politics for the OUP, though said candidate lost his deposit. William Hurley. Apparently a life long resident of Rugeley "firmly committed to Tony Blair's 'New Britain' policies and keen to serve local people". He also described himself as a 'committed socialist' and had reportedly served in the North Staffordshire regiment where he was a boxing champion. (Presumably) later in life he became a qualified coppersmith.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jul 28, 2024 21:30:06 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election")
Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat.
I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next?
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 28, 2024 22:13:37 GMT
You know if Suella was running and was trying to get my vote a doktorb rant would be just the sort of thing to push me into considering she might be worth trying.
Did she decline before you were able to submit your fee?
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Post by cathyc on Jul 28, 2024 22:18:11 GMT
You know if Suella was running and was trying to get my vote a doktorb rant would be just the sort of think to push me into considering she might be worth trying. Did she decline before you were able to submit your fee? That suggests you had half a mind to vote for her anyway - which is all it takes.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jul 28, 2024 22:24:32 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election") Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat. I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next? May I remind members - again - of the original meaning of Little Englander? Thank you.
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Post by stb12 on Jul 28, 2024 22:25:25 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election") Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat. I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next? Something that I don't think one member of the Blue Team on here actually agrees with, in fact they believe the opposite
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 28, 2024 23:58:34 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election") Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat. I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next? In what way is voter ID far right? I can see why some think it unnecessary but is there really a principled argument against asking people to show ID before voting? As for botched Brexit, what does botching something have to do with political positioning? Most of us to the right of the Conservatives think it was botched. End of peaceful protest, have you somehow missed the great many protests that still take place on a regular basis? Rwanda? Certainly a case of incompetence but numerous governments on the centre left are considering off shore processing of migrants. Nothing you mention is "far right" other than in your deluded mind. The Tories shed votes in all directions at this election. It wasn't because of their political positioning, either too far to the right or too far to the left, but because they did a really, really shit job in government.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,580
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Post by john07 on Jul 29, 2024 0:25:51 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election") Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat. I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next? Something that I don't think one member of the Blue Team on here actually agrees with, in fact they believe the opposite They would, wouldn't they?
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Post by stb12 on Jul 29, 2024 0:29:00 GMT
Something that I don't think one member of the Blue Team on here actually agrees with, in fact they believe the opposite They would, wouldn't they? Well I don’t know but what’s certain is that both sides of the hyperbole can’t be correct
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 29, 2024 4:17:58 GMT
The only far-right bit of the last government was an enormous expansion of the role and scale of the State.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 29, 2024 6:07:51 GMT
The only far-right bit of the last government was an enormous expansion of the role and scale of the State. smash the state comrade
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jul 29, 2024 6:09:53 GMT
Suella is in the Telegraph saying she won't stand as leader and gives "a parting shot" of one kind of another ("the Tories won't listen as to why they lost the election") Those of us on the right side of democracy know why: cycles come and go and even after becoming the most far right government in years (voter id, botched Brexit, end of peaceful protest, Rwanda etc), the general public didn't buy into the idea that one more term of economic chaos was worth the effort. Going Trumpian (as Reform would like) didn't save the Tories from a defeat. I don't know what kind of Conservative Party Suella wants to create. She was head of the most extreme, isolationist, little Englander Home Office in generations, so it can't be that she wants to row back. Is the newest Telegraph column (I assume she declares her income?) just a red flag to wave before joining Reform? Will other right wing extremist Priti Patel be next? Something that I don't think one member of the Blue Team on here actually agrees with, in fact they believe the opposite A government with a socialist economic policy, that could not control its borders, which would not stand up to the partisan civil service and which refused to invest properly in defence, though on the latter still somehow doing better than Labour, cannot be described as far right. Doktorb is seemingly embarking on one of his trademark descents.
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Post by matureleft on Jul 29, 2024 6:40:15 GMT
It wasn’t a particularly right-wing government (which is anyway scarcely an objective term). I appreciate it “talked” to the right from time to time, but the absence of connection between words and deeds was both a large part of their credibility problem and part of the critique that must surely be near consensual. That is that this was, reasonably comfortably, the most incompetent government in the last 50 years.
I’ve lived through plenty of Tory governments, have disagreed with their actions and also seen some poor governance from both main parties. But the number of poorly designed policies, implemented badly (if at all) beats anything I can recall.
I appreciate that Johnson remains a sainted figure to some, but he really set the tone for casual, slapdash politics. He desperately needed a rigorous team around him with his use strictly confined to the small number of things he did well.
The Tories first must win a hearing. Some big Labour own goals would help but they need to establish a tone of seriousness, humility and well-thought-through politics together with a narrative that appeals to a decent-sized coalition.
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