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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Dec 14, 2020 14:30:24 GMT
You're all bananas
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 14, 2020 16:38:15 GMT
She was very upset about Jezza being kicked out. She's somewhat of a damson in distress...
I'll get my kumquat.
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,371
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Post by Tony Otim on Dec 18, 2020 14:26:20 GMT
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Dec 18, 2020 14:33:43 GMT
Yet another victim of the extremists in the trans debate. The saddest thing is, trans people don't want this. It's being done in their name but it's completely counter to their wishes and interests.
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 18, 2020 14:43:00 GMT
Yet another victim of the extremists in the trans debate. The saddest thing is, trans people don't want this. It's being done in their name but it's completely counter to their wishes and interests. I don't agree. It depends on the trans person. Most I know agree with the changes (and that's quite a few) but also feel that other matters are being overlooked in consequence.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Dec 18, 2020 14:57:33 GMT
The Greens have responded.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Dec 18, 2020 14:59:12 GMT
Yet another victim of the extremists in the trans debate. The saddest thing is, trans people don't want this. It's being done in their name but it's completely counter to their wishes and interests. I don't agree. It depends on the trans person. Most I know agree with the changes (and that's quite a few) but also feel that other matters are being overlooked in consequence. The changes are one thing, I don't know a single trans person who supports firing people, discipling them or bullying them because of their stance on this issue. Yet, that's exactly what's happened here.
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 18, 2020 16:11:03 GMT
I don't agree. It depends on the trans person. Most I know agree with the changes (and that's quite a few) but also feel that other matters are being overlooked in consequence. The changes are one thing, I don't know a single trans person who supports firing people, discipling them or bullying them because of their stance on this issue. Yet, that's exactly what's happened here. The problem is that we so often do not know what really went on. For example, I know that in my job if I refused to use chosen pronouns or used a deadname that would not be acceptable. I think it's important to be able to hold and defend your views but I can also understand why a trans student would feel very uneasy if their tutor held some of the views of the TERF's. With regard to politics the Greens have a much looser whipping system than the older parties who have both been very gung-ho with regard to dismissing dissidents in recent years. It's relatively unusual for the Greens to insist on a particular stance but if they believe it is fundamental to their beliefs that's perfectly reasonable.
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 18, 2020 20:50:01 GMT
I know that in my job if I refused to use chosen pronouns or used a deadname that would not be acceptable. Why not? My lecturers and classmates express views that are grossly offensive to me and probably I do to them. But because we are adults capable of further education we do with courtesy and get on with it. But they aren't views.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Dec 18, 2020 20:58:22 GMT
I know that in my job if I refused to use chosen pronouns or used a deadname that would not be acceptable. Why not? My lecturers and classmates express views that are grossly offensive to me and probably I do to them. But because we are adults capable of further education we do with courtesy and get on with it. Because he works in a field dominated by the woke agenda. Most of us can fortunately ignore these bizzare words, (I choose to call them that), some are in the unfortunate position, in my opinion, where they can't if they want to gain or stay in employment.
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 20, 2020 23:20:11 GMT
I think I have learned a new word here. "Deadname". Definition please?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 20, 2020 23:24:46 GMT
Deadname = the abandoned previous name of a trans person, given to them when they were believed to be their original gender. Many trans people would like their previous name permanently (and if necessary, retrospectively) removed.
To deadname = to use this name to refer to a trans person, especially from someone opposed to recognition of transgender identity.
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 20, 2020 23:29:17 GMT
Deadname = the abandoned previous name of a trans person, given to them when they were believed to be their original gender. Many trans people would like their previous name permanently (and if necessary, retrospectively) removed. To deadname = to use this name to refer to a trans person, especially from someone opposed to recognition of transgender identity. Thankyou. I would tell you what I think about it except that if I did, someone on one side or the other, and probably both, would report me to half a dozen different thought police.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,440
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Post by Crimson King on Dec 20, 2020 23:54:32 GMT
just a thought. Were those people who referred to George Osborne as Gideon, dead naming him? And if not why not?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 21, 2020 0:11:33 GMT
It's still part of his name - he simply added 'George' as an additional name - and it doesn't assign him to the wrong gender. But it's wrong to do it.
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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 21, 2020 0:34:47 GMT
just a thought. Were those people who referred to George Osborne as Gideon, dead naming him? And if not why not? The idea that calling someone by a name they don't like is some kind of serious thing is ridiculous IMO. Much of political satire and comedy for instance relies on calling politicians by names they wouldn't like. There's nothing wrong with Peter Hitchens referring to Tony Blair as Princess Tony for example. Being able to do so is an important part of free speech IMO. You could argue it represents the start of the rise of an honour/victim culture that people are arguing that this is an important issue and that has to be a bad thing. I'm reminded of these articles about honour/dignity/victim cultures. www.skeptic.com/reading_room/honor-dignity-victim-cultures/www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/Quote: "Victim cultures share in common with honor cultures the sensitivity to slights or insults, but whereas those in an honor culture might try to retaliate (physically or otherwise), people in a victim culture will instead appeal to a powerful, omnipresent state/legal authority. Classic examples are Mao’s China and Stalin’s Russia. In contrast to honor cultures that expect victims to be strong and stern enough to defend themselves, and dignity cultures that expect victims to be calm and charitable when in a dispute or disagreement, victim cultures emphasize how complainants are emotionally or physically fragile, vulnerable, and weak. In order to have high status in a victim culture, one must perfect and dramatize a personal “narrative of suffering.”2 Confidently espousing one’s own weakness, frailty, and suffering might seem, perhaps, dishonorable or shameful from an honor culture perspective, or gratuitous and self-absorbed from a dignity culture perspective."
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,723
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 21, 2020 1:20:31 GMT
I think I have learned a new word here. "Deadname". Definition please? Mentioning that Wally Stott was the musical director on The Goons, or that James Morris had the exclusive on the 1953 Everest expedition.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Dec 21, 2020 19:25:18 GMT
The Greens have responded. So the SGP equate being in the 'green movement' with being a party member? This is a dangerous path to tread: I'm a member of (and active in) the labour movement, but I am not a member of the Labour Party. The movement is broader than that. What about people in, say, Friends of the Earth but who are in another party? Or floating voters who are of a green view but don't share the politics of the Green Party? This exclusivist position is a shortsighted move.
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 21, 2020 20:34:26 GMT
The Greens have responded. So the SGP equate being in the 'green movement' with being a party member? This is a dangerous path to tread: I'm a member of (and active in) the labour movement, but I am not a member of the Labour Party. The movement is broader than that. What about people in, say, Friends of the Earth but who are in another party? Or floating voters who are of a green view but don't share the politics of the Green Party? This exclusivist position is a shortsighted move. I don't know anybody in GPEW who takes that approach. I certainly take the view that the Green Party is the electoral wing of the wider Green movement. And it does seem very odd to me to make a particular view on trans rights be the dividing line between being in that movement and not being in that movement.
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,782
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Post by Sandy on Dec 21, 2020 21:30:58 GMT
It's still part of his name - he simply added 'George' as an additional name - and it doesn't assign him to the wrong gender. But it's wrong to do it. This makes me want to call him Gideon
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