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Post by No Offence Alan on Aug 19, 2020 13:47:40 GMT
Because he made the case so eloquently for devolution, from removing Welsh branding from Welsh Office stationary, through refusing to stay overnight in the country, to sending money back to the treasury to being the voice of the cabinet in Wales and not the voice of Wales in the cabinet. His rule exposed the naked colonialism and the limits of administrative devolution as experienced in Wales. You could make a case that George Thomas was almost as bad as Redwood, but Redwood is ahead by a country mile. It's a strange form of colonialism when you elect representatives to the parliament of a union that you could leave at any time. Wales has the right to call an Indyref, without Westminster approval? I must have missed that piece of legislation.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 19, 2020 14:35:01 GMT
The problem that Welsh nationalism has is that it is in the hands of Plaid.
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Post by greatkingrat on Aug 19, 2020 15:30:08 GMT
The problem that Welsh nationalism has is that it is in the hands of Plaid. How quickly we forgot Gwlad Gwlad ...
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,384
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Post by mboy on Aug 19, 2020 15:44:47 GMT
A regional tier of government is vital in the modern age for transport infrastructure and planning coherence. What other things make sense to do at a regional level is up for debate, but giving those regions with strong identity the ability to go their own way on health/education is fine if they want it. The Welsh system of a single layer of councils with a regional lay above is - like Scotland - entirely sensible and the way England should go as well. Isn't that what the Combined Authorities are supposed to be all about? It’s a half-arsed attempt, but they aren’t really big enough for real transport infrastructure.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 19, 2020 16:23:40 GMT
Do Plaid just spend all day obsessing with Redwood? That's what it seems like to an outsider It is just them. And Steve Bell.
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,558
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Post by cibwr on Aug 19, 2020 16:30:32 GMT
Because he made the case so eloquently for devolution, from removing Welsh branding from Welsh Office stationary, through refusing to stay overnight in the country, to sending money back to the treasury to being the voice of the cabinet in Wales and not the voice of Wales in the cabinet. His rule exposed the naked colonialism and the limits of administrative devolution as experienced in Wales. You could make a case that George Thomas was almost as bad as Redwood, but Redwood is ahead by a country mile. It's a strange form of colonialism when you elect representatives to the parliament of a union that you could leave at any time. That is the whole point, John Redwood acted like a colonial governor and had such a disdain for Wales he never even tried to hide it. No one in Wales elected him, he was not in any way accountable to the people of Wales, he could not be removed by any one in Wales.... As for leaving the union, I take it then that you would give the Senedd the right to vote for independence - as the body that best represents the voice of the Welsh nation?
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Aug 19, 2020 16:56:53 GMT
It's a strange form of colonialism when you elect representatives to the parliament of a union that you could leave at any time. That is the whole point, John Redwood acted like a colonial governor and had such a disdain for Wales he never even tried to hide it. No one in Wales elected him, he was not in any way accountable to the people of Wales, he could not be removed by any one in Wales.... As for leaving the union, I take it then that you would give the Senedd the right to vote for independence - as the body that best represents the voice of the Welsh nation? I wouldn't give it a damn thing. Personally, I'd have the Spanish/Castillian approach. Welsh people could vote to leave the UK in a referendum under current norms though. If Plaid won a majority in Wales, you'd get a ref, I have no doubt.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,312
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 19, 2020 17:08:39 GMT
Colonial analogies are inaccurate and inappropriate in the case of Wales, but the issue with Redwood is that he acted as if he were a colonial governor, even though he absolutely was not. None of his predecessors had; his successor did not either. Annoyed a lot of people who were not exactly nationalists and the habit of sardonically referring to him as a 'colonial governor' was not restricted to them either.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,530
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Post by Khunanup on Aug 19, 2020 17:40:13 GMT
Isn't that what the Combined Authorities are supposed to be all about? It’s a half-arsed attempt, but they aren’t really big enough for real transport infrastructure. Very much crumbs from the table organisations. Painfully limited and effectively used as a way to unlock funds that local government should have anyway within a structure no-one would choose given a choice. Even with Burnham as the most powerful combined authority mayor (GM's CA deal is the most comprehensive) you can see how little power he actually has and that the far from being an adept co-ordinating role it's just stepping on the councils' toes (because too much of the power it has overlaps with councils rather than being devolved from government).
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,766
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Post by Sandy on Aug 19, 2020 18:39:14 GMT
It's a strange form of colonialism when you elect representatives to the parliament of a union that you could leave at any time. That is the whole point, John Redwood acted like a colonial governor and had such a disdain for Wales he never even tried to hide it. No one in Wales elected him, he was not in any way accountable to the people of Wales, he could not be removed by any one in Wales.... As for leaving the union, I take it then that you would give the Senedd the right to vote for independence - as the body that best represents the voice of the Welsh nation? Why would we give the Welsh Assembly anything? Cameron foolishly gave Holyrood a referendum in a botched attempt to see off the SNP, a clear threat. Your party is not of the slightest bit of concern. So why bother?
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,558
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Post by cibwr on Aug 20, 2020 9:27:12 GMT
Keep up your disdain, you are a good recruiting sergeant for the pro independence side.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,498
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Post by johng on Aug 20, 2020 10:03:55 GMT
You have to admit, for a 'unionist' party, the Conservatives have certainly furthered nationalism more than any other.
The colonial governor analogies haven't gone either. Johnson's visit to Scotland in July as example.
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,558
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Post by cibwr on Aug 20, 2020 10:46:18 GMT
Plus the images of Spanish police beating up grannies trying to vote and steeling ballot boxes does not sit well with people who support democracy.
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Post by Strontium Dog on Aug 20, 2020 11:19:28 GMT
Yep, who can forget Welsh nationalists democratically setting fire to the Welsh homes of English people.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,187
Member is Online
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 20, 2020 11:30:23 GMT
Yep, who can forget Welsh nationalists democratically setting fire to the Welsh homes of English people. Yup, that beats looking down their noses at Welsh people who cant, and don't want to, speak Welsh.
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,558
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Post by cibwr on Aug 20, 2020 18:07:42 GMT
Well as someone who is has a strong tendency to pacifism, I'd oppose home burning as dangerous and counter productive..... As would the vast majority of members of Plaid. However that is just you trolling.... perhaps when you have something worthwhile to add, you could come back with a more reasoned reason why the UK is such a wonderful place that we should all want the union to continue for ever.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 20, 2020 18:13:40 GMT
Yep, who can forget Welsh nationalists democratically setting fire to the Welsh homes of English people. What has that got to do with the matter under consideration?
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Post by Strontium Dog on Aug 20, 2020 18:49:00 GMT
Yep, who can forget Welsh nationalists democratically setting fire to the Welsh homes of English people. What has that got to do with the matter under consideration? Did you not bother to read the post before mine?
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 2,766
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Post by Sandy on Aug 20, 2020 18:58:54 GMT
Keep up your disdain, you are a good recruiting sergeant for the pro independence side. I didn't realise the Welsh were so heavily invested in the opinion of some random Scottish guy online. Honestly I think your sorry ilk are better recruiting sergeants for the Union side than I could ever be for the Nats
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 20, 2020 19:11:55 GMT
What has that got to do with the matter under consideration? Did you not bother to read the post before mine? I did. I assumed it referred to recent events in Catalonia. Was I wrong?
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