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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 30, 2019 19:01:11 GMT
I have to say I'm a bit shocked by tonygreaves' response. If more of our MPs had adhered to the pledges they made to the electorate in 2010 we might not have descended quite so far into the abyss in 2015. tonygreaves , owing his position in parliament to patronage rather than election, doesn't feel the need to concern himself with the wishes of the electorate. although to be fair to him, unlike say Lord Adonis, he did at least on occasion seek the approval of the electorate. He never received it though
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 30, 2019 19:01:18 GMT
Fortunately you have little influence in these matters. tonygreaves has less influence than Paul Lawrie and did less to merit his honour. I disagree on the latter point. While we have party political appointments to the HoL (and whether we should is another matter) then it would be churlish not to have recognised Tony's enormous contribution to the party.
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Post by tonyhill on Oct 30, 2019 21:25:24 GMT
It is not true to say that tonygreaves owes his position to patronage. He is in the Lords as a consequence of a, lamentably, brief excursion into democracy by the LibDems when a panel of future appointees to the House of Lords was elected (by STV of course) by delegates to Party Conference. Charles Kennedy and other members of the Party Establishment did not like being deprived of their power of patronage and the scheme was buried, but not before tonygreaves became the only (? there may have been one or two others from the list that I've forgotten) member of the Lords with any kind of popular mandate.
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Post by greenchristian on Oct 30, 2019 22:29:37 GMT
It is not true to say that tonygreaves owes his position to patronage. He is in the Lords as a consequence of a, lamentably, brief excursion into democracy by the LibDems when a panel of future appointees to the House of Lords was elected (by STV of course) by delegates to Party Conference. Charles Kennedy and other members of the Party Establishment did not like being deprived of their power of patronage and the scheme was buried, but not before tonygreaves became the only (? there may have been one or two others from the list that I've forgotten) member of the Lords with any kind of popular mandate. Jenny Jones had a similar mandate, having topped an STV election within the Green Party for the contingency that we were given a Lords seat. The list had expired by the time we were offered a slot in May's resignation honours, so Natalie Bennett doesn't have that mandate since we didn't have time to organise an election for it.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 31, 2019 0:30:40 GMT
It is not true to say that tonygreaves owes his position to patronage. He is in the Lords as a consequence of a, lamentably, brief excursion into democracy by the LibDems when a panel of future appointees to the House of Lords was elected (by STV of course) by delegates to Party Conference. Charles Kennedy and other members of the Party Establishment did not like being deprived of their power of patronage and the scheme was buried, but not before tonygreaves became the only (? there may have been one or two others from the list that I've forgotten) member of the Lords with any kind of popular mandate. Hardly surprising that the experiment didn't last long when it produced such a ridiculous result as Tony Greaves being granted a seat in a national legislature.
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Post by tonyhill on Oct 31, 2019 6:28:27 GMT
Do you actually know anything in detail about the work tonygreaves has done in the Lords over the years? You may not like him but his contribution to improving legislation in his fields of expertise has been very valuable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 7:17:26 GMT
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Post by iainbhx on Oct 31, 2019 22:09:16 GMT
Antoinette Sandbach Con -> LDm according to Laura Kuenessberg
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middyman
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Post by middyman on Oct 31, 2019 22:12:53 GMT
Antoinette Sandbach Con -> LDm according to Laura Kuenessberg She didn’t have the whip restored and said she would stand as an independent. Have the LibDem’s offered her a seat?
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Post by andrewp on Oct 31, 2019 22:14:14 GMT
Antoinette Sandbach Con -> LDm according to Laura Kuenessberg She didn’t have the whip restored and said she would stand as an independent. Have the LibDem’s offered her a seat? There are any decent seats left to offer!
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middyman
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Post by middyman on Oct 31, 2019 22:15:01 GMT
She didn’t have the whip restored and said she would stand as an independent. Have the LibDem’s offered her a seat? There are any decent seats left to offer! If you’re out in the cold ..........
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mboy
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Post by mboy on Oct 31, 2019 22:29:17 GMT
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Oct 31, 2019 22:44:00 GMT
Respect to her for not carpetbagging like many of the others.
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middyman
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Post by middyman on Oct 31, 2019 22:58:23 GMT
Respect to her for not carpetbagging like many of the others. Makes it clear why the Conservative whip was not restored to her.
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Post by andrewp on Oct 31, 2019 23:00:16 GMT
Respect to her for not carpetbagging like many of the others. Makes it clear why the Conservative whip was not restored to her. That leaves Gauke, P Hammond, Milton who have not announced retirement and fate is unclear
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Post by curiousliberal on Oct 31, 2019 23:08:11 GMT
Makes it clear why the Conservative whip was not restored to her. That leaves Gauke, P Hammond, Milton who have not announced retirement and fate is unclear Bebb has announced retirement but only, it seems, in the context of being a Conservative or PC candidate. He has not explicitly ruled out running for Parliament under other colours or independently.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Oct 31, 2019 23:37:36 GMT
Respect to her for not carpetbagging like many of the others. Carpetbagging? Can you name me a single defector to the LDs who has moved to a safe LD seat? Off the top of my head I'm struggling to think of even one who has moved to a seat where we were as high as second in 2017. In fact the closest I can think of to an easy ride are Wollaston and, if she'd stayed, Allen, both of whom might be considered to be in naturally strong LD areas in their existing seats (even then it's a bit of a stretch.)
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Post by jamie on Oct 31, 2019 23:50:35 GMT
Carpetbagging? Can you name me a single defector to the LDs who has moved to a safe LD seat? Off the top of my head I'm struggling to think of even one who has moved to a seat where we were as high as second in 2017. In fact the closest I can think of to an easy ride are Wollaston and, if she'd stayed, Allen, both of whom might be considered to be in naturally strong LD areas in their existing seats (even then it's a bit of a stretch.) Berger, Gyimah, Lee, Smith and Umunna have all carpetbagged from their current constituencies to more winnable ones. Berger and Smith are particularly egregious.
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Post by curiousliberal on Oct 31, 2019 23:51:41 GMT
You're describing what should happen. I would only feel very confident in his victory if a BxP candidate stands - you can bet Labour will be running to the Europhilian of him here. A read of the open comments under his Facebook post (which for most MPs is a warzone) informed what I posted... Not to use FB as a poll, but that made for grim reading IMO. I hope BxP stands, or my concerns are only deepened.
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Post by curiousliberal on Oct 31, 2019 23:57:13 GMT
Carpetbagging? Can you name me a single defector to the LDs who has moved to a safe LD seat? Off the top of my head I'm struggling to think of even one who has moved to a seat where we were as high as second in 2017. In fact the closest I can think of to an easy ride are Wollaston and, if she'd stayed, Allen, both of whom might be considered to be in naturally strong LD areas in their existing seats (even then it's a bit of a stretch.) Berger, Gyimah, Lee, Smith and Umunna have all carpetbagged from their current constituencies to more winnable ones. Berger and Smith are particularly egregious. Umunna picked a worse constituency, and it's not all that clear why. Perhaps he knew Streatham well enough to know he couldn't win there, but couldn't be sure about Cities of W&L, or perhaps he felt hesitant to displace our Streatham PPC for some reason.
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