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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 20, 2018 18:22:03 GMT
Manny Shinwell, like the majority of the Independent Labour Party and Trade Unionists was a supporter of Mosley, and he has indicated that Mosley would have had a good chance of leading the party into the 1945 Election had he not resigned from the NEC and Labour. Wonder how things would have went if Mosely had been Elected as a radical left wing leader of the UK.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 20, 2018 21:51:47 GMT
What on earth has invaded this Forum?
There were always odd and unpleasant things said from time to time on a few threads. But!!
Now we have many of our most active threads full of complete and utter rubbish and with fruitless circular arguments about gormless piffle.
This is one such. It is predicated on utter nonsense. Mosley had run the Blackshirts. Been actively pro-German. Been gaoled during the war. Was a small-scale anti-semitic loudmouth. Would have zero attention from any Labour politician in 1945 other than a well deserved kicking from a few of them.
Is there some pernicious virus at work? The only place I find any sensible conversation is parts of the Blue Room and there are signs of contagion there. I am disturbed by these trends.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 20, 2018 22:22:01 GMT
What on earth has invaded this Forum? I refer the Hon Member to the forum starter's avatar ... |
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Post by greenchristian on Aug 20, 2018 23:07:13 GMT
What on earth has invaded this Forum? There were always odd and unpleasant things said from time to time on a few threads. But!! Now we have many of our most active threads full of complete and utter rubbish and with fruitless circular arguments about gormless piffle. This is one such. It is predicated on utter nonsense. Mosley had run the Blackshirts. Been actively pro-German. Been gaoled during the war. Was a small-scale anti-semitic loudmouth. Would have zero attention from any Labour politician in 1945 other than a well deserved kicking from a few of them. Is there some pernicious virus at work? The only place I find any sensible conversation is parts of the Blue Room and there are signs of contagion there. I am disturbed by these trends. The premise of this alternate history is that Moseley remained a Labour minister in 1930 (most likely as a result of the Mosley Memorandum being accepted), and ultimately becomes Labour leader instead of Atlee. In such a history he would never have created the New Party, the BUF, or the Blackshirts. And probably wouldn't end up being anywhere near as pro-German or anti-Semitic. In such circumstances Mosley becoming Labour leader is entirely plausible. |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 20, 2018 23:20:09 GMT
What on earth has invaded this Forum? There were always odd and unpleasant things said from time to time on a few threads. But!! Now we have many of our most active threads full of complete and utter rubbish and with fruitless circular arguments about gormless piffle. This is one such. It is predicated on utter nonsense. Mosley had run the Blackshirts. Been actively pro-German. Been gaoled during the war. Was a small-scale anti-semitic loudmouth. Would have zero attention from any Labour politician in 1945 other than a well deserved kicking from a few of them. Is there some pernicious virus at work? The only place I find any sensible conversation is parts of the Blue Room and there are signs of contagion there. I am disturbed by these trends. The premise of this alternate history is that Moseley remained a Labour minister in 1930 (most likely as a result of the Mosley Memorandum being accepted), and ultimately becomes Labour leader instead of Atlee. In such a history he would never have created the New Party, the BUF, or the Blackshirts. And probably wouldn't end up being anywhere near as pro-German or anti-Semitic. In such circumstances Mosley becoming Labour leader is entirely plausible. Mosley lost his seat (Smethwick) in 1931, and Labour didn't regain it in 1935 |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 20, 2018 23:39:12 GMT
The premise of this alternate history is that Moseley remained a Labour minister in 1930 (most likely as a result of the Mosley Memorandum being accepted), and ultimately becomes Labour leader instead of Atlee. In such a history he would never have created the New Party, the BUF, or the Blackshirts. And probably wouldn't end up being anywhere near as pro-German or anti-Semitic. In such circumstances Mosley becoming Labour leader is entirely plausible. Mosley lost his seat (Smethwick) in 1931, and Labour didn't regain it in 1935 But he still had the full backing of the Trade Unions and the ILP, they ensured his position within the NEC. Shinwell, a strong Mosely supporter states in his autobiography Mosley had strong base within the party. |
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 20, 2018 23:39:47 GMT
I give up. The Forum and the World is actually going mad.
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 20, 2018 23:52:24 GMT
I give up. The Forum and the World is actually going mad. Why, Mosley was the Left Wing's nomination to the NEC, he was intelligent, articulate and well respected before his conceit got the better of him. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 20, 2018 23:55:23 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not:
1) Patient
2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors
3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs
So this isn't a very likely what-if.
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 21, 2018 0:12:18 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not: 1) Patient 2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors 3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs So this isn't a very likely what-if. He had the ILP, the Trade Unions, the main thing against him was the jealousy of Henderson and losing the patronage of McDonald, if he had been patient he could have beat Lansbury |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,774 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Aug 21, 2018 0:17:32 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not: 1) Patient 2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors 3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs So this isn't a very likely what-if.
So, essentially, for Mosley to become PM, he would have had to not be Mosley.
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 21, 2018 0:26:44 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not: 1) Patient 2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors 3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs So this isn't a very likely what-if.
So, essentially, for Mosley to become PM, he would have had to not be Mosley.
Mosely was popular with many MP's - he had some radical proposals, if we take it step by step, could he have become leader of the Labour party when the National Government was formed. I feel that Mosely would have been in strong position to beat Henderson then Lansbury |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2018 4:41:58 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not: 1) Patient 2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors 3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs So this isn't a very likely what-if.
So, essentially, for Mosley to become PM, he would have had to not be Mosley.
Or as Baldwin put it : "Tom Mosley is a cad, as the Labour party is about to discover". |
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msc
Non-Aligned
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Post by msc on Aug 21, 2018 9:13:25 GMT
For Mosley to have been at all in with a shout of becoming a Labour Prime Minister, he would have had to be three things, all of which we know he was most decidedly not: 1) Patient 2) Willing to work within a party and defer to his superiors 3) Personally popular with other Labour MPs So this isn't a very likely what-if.
So, essentially, for Mosley to become PM, he would have had to not be Mosley.
iirc one of the early articles in Prime Minister Portillo makes much the same point.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 21, 2018 10:33:48 GMT
So, essentially, for Mosley to become PM, he would have had to not be Mosley. Or as Baldwin put it : " Tom Mosley is a cad, as the Labour party is about to discover". Where did that name come from? |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 21, 2018 10:43:50 GMT
Or as Baldwin put it : " Tom Mosley is a cad, as the Labour party is about to discover". Where did that name come from? Part of the habit of upper-class families where people have family names that are unrelated to their legal one. Hence Tony Benn = Jimmy within the family. |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 21, 2018 10:44:18 GMT
Or as Baldwin put it : " Tom Mosley is a cad, as the Labour party is about to discover". Where did that name come from? His pet name in the family. |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2018 10:45:53 GMT
Where did that name come from? Part of the habit of upper-class families where people have family names that are unrelated to their legal one. Hence Tony Benn = Jimmy within the family. And his father was called Oswald as well, so his mother gave him it as a pet name. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 21, 2018 10:46:26 GMT
Hence Tony Benn = Jimmy within the family. Did not know that one either  |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Aug 21, 2018 10:51:14 GMT
And Tony Benns first speech (six years old) was at Oswald Mosely's house, Benn's father beibg a Mosely supporter at one time
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