Local by-elections,March 1st 2018

[carlton43]

Mar 2, 2018 9:30:42 GMT timmullen1 said:

Mar 2, 2018 8:59:28 GMT Crimson King said:

tbf the 'dont travel' appeals are about driving down the motorways/trying to get on a train, not wrapping up warm and walking to the shops/pub/polling station

Maybe, but then my experience yesterday was that the roads were less dangerous than pavements; schools were closed yesterday, and at least one in my Council Ward that is used as a polling station, was completely inaccessible because the only unadapted road accessing it was impassable, and, looking at the TV pictures, we got off extremely lightly compared to other areas.

However I was trying to make a wider point, not just about the weather; there was the link posted on here yesterday about armed police being deployed in Exmouth yesterday - what if that had necessitated closing the road to a polling station?

I’m not advocating routinely abandoning by-elections because of a minor inconvenience, and maybe any postponement should need the authorisation of a High Court judge or similar, but there should surely be a degree of flexibility within the system to provide for extreme and exceptional circumstances?

Hard cases make bad law.

We have got through until now without all this silly flim flam. Election called. Election held. Very occasionally there with be gales bringing down trees, flooding blocking off roads, snow and ice causing difficulty. So what? It is an occasional one off. TO will drop. But there will be determined people who clamber over fallen timber, wade through water, wrap up and brave the snow...And others who don't or can't. And there will be postals already cast. No call to go all prissy and risk averse. Democracy will not fail because of these rare incidents. Man up people. This is just a bit of cold and a bit of snow. It is hardly the end of the world.

[timmullen1]

Mar 2, 2018 9:43:58 GMT carlton43 said:

Mar 2, 2018 9:30:42 GMT timmullen1 said:

Maybe, but then my experience yesterday was that the roads were less dangerous than pavements; schools were closed yesterday, and at least one in my Council Ward that is used as a polling station, was completely inaccessible because the only unadapted road accessing it was impassable, and, looking at the TV pictures, we got off extremely lightly compared to other areas.

However I was trying to make a wider point, not just about the weather; there was the link posted on here yesterday about armed police being deployed in Exmouth yesterday - what if that had necessitated closing the road to a polling station?

I’m not advocating routinely abandoning by-elections because of a minor inconvenience, and maybe any postponement should need the authorisation of a High Court judge or similar, but there should surely be a degree of flexibility within the system to provide for extreme and exceptional circumstances?

Hard cases make bad law.

We have got through until now without all this silly flim flam. Election called. Election held. Very occasionally there with be gales bringing down trees, flooding blocking off roads, snow and ice causing difficulty. So what? It is an occasional one off. TO will drop. But there will be determined people who clamber over fallen timber, wade through water, wrap up and brave the snow...And others who don't or can't. And there will be postals already cast. No call to go all prissy and risk averse. Democracy will not fail because of these rare incidents. Man up people. This is just a bit of cold and a bit of snow. It is hardly the end of the world.

Feel free to ignore the “not just about the weather” part of my post. I also take exception to being called “prissy and risk averse” when I spent most of yesterday waiting for an ambulance for one of my adult social carers who had slipped on the untreated pavement getting from their car to my gate and now has a displaced hip fracture.

Rely on already cast postals? I’ve just been told they should be strictly limited as the system encourages corruption and vote farming; does it not discredit democracy when we deny people the opportunity to vote? And yes, I accept these are rare incidents, that’s my whole point, there should be a degree of flexibility precisely for those rare incidents (at the very extreme end of the scale just as New York City was allowed to delay its Mayoral Primaries scheduled for 12 September 2001).

[yellowperil]

I did notice btw that the pics yesterday of an armed police block in Exmouth seemed to show virtually no snow? - but probably icy and very dangerous underfoot? I do want to see the pv figures as in many places these days the potential pv turnout would probably be more than the actual total vote,which is getting ridiculous.I think we need to find ways of making postal voting , or more probably online voting, properly secure and than abandon this whole archaic system of going to a polling station and marking a ballot paper with a pencil stub.I haven't done that myself for any time since well back in the last century. I know I will be told that's for another thread, but this week's voting shows up what a nonsense it all is. And yes I am probably undermining the whole raison d'etre of this forum.

[carlton43]

Mar 2, 2018 9:56:48 GMT timmullen1 said:

Mar 2, 2018 9:43:58 GMT carlton43 said:

Hard cases make bad law.

We have got through until now without all this silly flim flam. Election called. Election held. Very occasionally there with be gales bringing down trees, flooding blocking off roads, snow and ice causing difficulty. So what? It is an occasional one off. TO will drop. But there will be determined people who clamber over fallen timber, wade through water, wrap up and brave the snow...And others who don't or can't. And there will be postals already cast. No call to go all prissy and risk averse. Democracy will not fail because of these rare incidents. Man up people. This is just a bit of cold and a bit of snow. It is hardly the end of the world.

Feel free to ignore the “not just about the weather” part of my post. I also take exception to being called “prissy and risk averse” when I spent most of yesterday waiting for an ambulance for one of my adult social carers who had slipped on the untreated pavement getting from their car to my gate and now has a displaced hip fracture.

Rely on already cast postals? I’ve just been told they should be strictly limited as the system encourages corruption and vote farming; does it not discredit democracy when we deny people the opportunity to vote? And yes, I accept these are rare incidents, that’s my whole point, there should be a degree of flexibility precisely for those rare incidents (at the very extreme end of the scale just as New York City was allowed to delay its Mayoral Primaries scheduled for 12 September 2001).

Yes I do feel free to ignore it or to take it as circumstances appear to me.  I have been driving at 3 am in East Anglia to hear on the radio that I am in the middle of serious black ice and that it is snowing heavily! It was well above freezing, no ice and a clear sky with no snow. The official advice was WRONG! How often have you passed big sign after big sign saying 'High Fog Risk... Max Speed 40 mph'  but it is a bright clear day with no one bothering to check or alter the signs.  The official  advice was WRONG!

You are doing it again in making a whole policy out of one unfortunate accident. The carer might have fallen for any reason at any time and had an accident needing an ambulance. That alters nothing and you know it unless you are a 'bear of very little brain'? In ice or snow people will fall over. some will be injured. some cars will have accidents. Fact. that is no excuse to Stop the World Shut Everything And Quake In A Cave. Cope you useless beings.  Cope!  Adversity is to be overcome not given in to. 

[stananson]

And for those who can't see embedded tweets:

Blythe by-election result:
Con 1252
Lab 224
LD 174
Spoiled/Rejected 5
James Robert Butler elected

[Andrew_S]

Mar 2, 2018 10:37:37 GMT stananson said:

And for those who can't see embedded tweets:

Blythe by-election result:
Con 1252
Lab 224
LD 174
Spoiled/Rejected 5
James Robert Butler elected

Con 75.9%
Lab 13.6%
LD 10.5%

Turnout is about 16.5%.

[Deleted]

Any news from Clackmannanshire North? Twitter seems pretty quiet.

[timmullen1]

Mar 2, 2018 10:16:19 GMT carlton43 said:

Mar 2, 2018 9:56:48 GMT timmullen1 said:

Feel free to ignore the “not just about the weather” part of my post. I also take exception to being called “prissy and risk averse” when I spent most of yesterday waiting for an ambulance for one of my adult social carers who had slipped on the untreated pavement getting from their car to my gate and now has a displaced hip fracture.

Rely on already cast postals? I’ve just been told they should be strictly limited as the system encourages corruption and vote farming; does it not discredit democracy when we deny people the opportunity to vote? And yes, I accept these are rare incidents, that’s my whole point, there should be a degree of flexibility precisely for those rare incidents (at the very extreme end of the scale just as New York City was allowed to delay its Mayoral Primaries scheduled for 12 September 2001).

Yes I do feel free to ignore it or to take it as circumstances appear to me.  I have been driving at 3 am in East Anglia to hear on the radio that I am in the middle of serious black ice and that it is snowing heavily! It was well above freezing, no ice and a clear sky with no snow. The official advice was WRONG! How often have you passed big sign after big sign saying 'High Fog Risk... Max Speed 40 mph'  but it is a bright clear day with no one bothering to check or alter the signs.  The official  advice was WRONG!

You are doing it again in making a whole policy out of one unfortunate accident. The carer might have fallen for any reason at any time and had an accident needing an ambulance. That alters nothing and you know it unless you are a 'bear of very little brain'? In ice or snow people will fall over. some will be injured. some cars will have accidents. Fact. that is no excuse to Stop the World Shut Everything And Quake In A Cave. Cope you useless beings.  Cope!  Adversity is to be overcome not given in to. 

I’ve spent my whole life overcoming adversity thank you, the kind that caused me to have 150+ fractures, be a full-time wheelchair user until I became bed bound in 1997, and remain oxygen dependent for a minimum of 18 hours a day, so you’ll understand that I don’t need smart arse remarks about overcoming adversity or coping from an ignorant, arrogant p.o.s like you.

[yellowperil]

Mar 2, 2018 10:45:39 GMT Andrew_S said:

Mar 2, 2018 10:37:37 GMT stananson said:

And for those who can't see embedded tweets:

Blythe by-election result:
Con 1252
Lab 224
LD 174
Spoiled/Rejected 5
James Robert Butler elected

Con 75.9%
Lab 13.6%
LD 10.5%

Turnout is about 16.5%.

Council said t/o was 15.8%,so how come you make it higher? 16.5 sounds implausibly high in the circs

[Deleted]

Can we cool it a bit on the weather debate please. Thank you.

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2018 10:47:49 GMT Sandy said:

Any news from Clackmannanshire North? Twitter seems pretty quiet.

count at 11.30

[Roger Harmer]

Mar 2, 2018 10:13:47 GMT yellowperil said:

I did notice btw that the pics yesterday of an armed police block in Exmouth seemed to show virtually no snow? - but probably icy and very dangerous underfoot? I do want to see the pv figures as in many places these days the potential pv turnout would probably be more than the actual total vote,which is getting ridiculous.I think we need to find ways of making postal voting , or more probably online voting, properly secure and than abandon this whole archaic system of going to a polling station and marking a ballot paper with a pencil stub.I haven't done that myself for any time since well back in the last century. I know I will be told that's for another thread, but this week's voting shows up what a nonsense it all is. And yes I am probably undermining the whole raison d'etre of this forum.

The problem with postal and online voting (however secure the process for recording the vote) is that you simply can't guarantee that the vote was cast secretly. The secret ballot was introduced for very good reasons, which still apply today. Making those people who can, come to a public place and vote in the presence of officials enables this to be achieved in a way you simply can't with postal or online voting. Postal voting is necessary in particular circumstances but it should not be for everyone.

[peterl]

All postal voting was tried in 2004 and deemed a failiure. Postal voting has repeatedly shown that it is more open to fraud than in person voting. Online voting would be even harder to keep secure - we hear time and time again about voting machines in the US being tampered with, the risk of hacking etc. Our system is secure. We can be confident in it. That is what is most important.

[carlton43]

Mar 2, 2018 11:15:01 GMT @strinity said:

Can we cool it a bit on the weather debate please. Thank you.

Its quite cool enough but I have stopped skating around the personal and will now shovel off the general as well. 

It is a difficulty when remarks in general are taken down into the other wise unknown personal particular in order to make and win points. It leaves the generalist beached on the indecision of being left looking as if they have no answer or being unkind in replying to adversity. It is of course a subtle ploy.

[andrewp]

Mar 2, 2018 11:14:17 GMT yellowperil said:

Mar 2, 2018 10:45:39 GMT Andrew_S said:

Con 75.9%
Lab 13.6%
LD 10.5%

Turnout is about 16.5%.

Council said t/o was 15.8%,so how come you make it higher? 16.5 sounds implausibly high in the circs

In the context of recent weeks, that is a rubbish result for the Lib Dem’s. Although perhaps just that the Tories got their vote out or by post more.

[Andrew_S]

Mar 2, 2018 11:14:17 GMT yellowperil said:

Mar 2, 2018 10:45:39 GMT Andrew_S said:

Con 75.9%
Lab 13.6%
LD 10.5%

Turnout is about 16.5%.

Council said t/o was 15.8%,so how come you make it higher? 16.5 sounds implausibly high in the circs

I was using the 2017 parliamentary electorate.

[yellowperil]

Mar 2, 2018 11:24:05 GMT andrewp said:

Mar 2, 2018 11:14:17 GMT yellowperil said:

Council said t/o was 15.8%,so how come you make it higher? 16.5 sounds implausibly high in the circs

In the context of recent weeks, that is a rubbish result for the Lib Dem’s. Although perhaps just that the Tories got their vote out or by post more.

A poor result under normal circumstances, certainly, but I expect more difficult in these conditions when you haven't even stood a candidate in the last 3 elections- this is where you get caught out badly under adverse weather conditions.

[yellowperil]

Any news from darkest Basingstoke?

[andrewp]

Mar 2, 2018 11:43:46 GMT yellowperil said:

Mar 2, 2018 11:24:05 GMT andrewp said:

In the context of recent weeks, that is a rubbish result for the Lib Dem’s. Although perhaps just that the Tories got their vote out or by post more.

A poor result under normal circumstances, certainly, but I expect more difficult in these conditions when you haven't even stood a candidate in the last 3 elections- this is where you get caught out badly under adverse weather conditions.

Yes, any good or poor result this week will have a weather asterisk by it. Although, I think Exmouth might have been a similar result on a higher turnout. 

[andrewp]

Mar 2, 2018 11:47:30 GMT yellowperil said:

Any news from darkest Basingstoke?

Con 686
Lab 366
lib Dem 113

turnout 20.57%