Local by-elections , October 12th, 2017

[timokane]

Wyre Conservatives seem to be in a state of turmoil just now having sacked their leader who sent this out to all Councillors last week.

Subject: null
From: "Cllr Gibson, Peter" <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 2017, 11:36
To: Cllrs All <[e-mail]>
Dear everybody,

As the cowardly act was taken to call the recent meeting when it was known I was on holiday it is time I had my say about the main instigators.

Alan Vincent was once suspended for 6 months by the Standards Board of England - the maximum suspension and recently proposed at LCC a restructure that was deemed illegal - this from a solicitor.

His son Michael represents Carleton ward and yet lives outside Wyre in Lytham.

Paul Moon is a Member of 2 authorities West Lancashire and Wyre so claims allowances from both authorities. He once threw face dog poo at a resident in the public gallery- hardly good judgment.

The wife of Pete Murphy came to my house and spoke to my partner and myself concerning HER alleged claim that he was violent towards her.

Unlike what was claimed by David Henderson in the press I have never had a conversation with him on my health issues.
He has never supported me but has supported his son and once considered standing down because it became public knowledge that his son had killed another man over a fight regarding a woman.

He once turned up at full council after a day out with his pals and bragged he had drank 10 pints.

The sister of Ron Greenhough has made an allegation that he had sex in the back of his taxi in lieu of charging a fayre.

These are the people who make a judgement on me. Next to them I look like Mother Theresa.

Garry Payne the Chief Exec has applied for the CEO job at Bolton. If he gets it and Alan Vincent stands down in December then Wyre could be without a Leader and CEO in a few months.

What a shambles - Wyre will become a laughingstock.

At least I gave Wyre almost 8 years of stability.





Sent from my iPad
Peter Gibson
Councillor
Breck Ward

[e-mail]
01253 887520 / 07903 115150
Civic Centre Breck Road, POULTON-LE-FYLDE, Lancashire, FY6 7PU

[Deleted]

Oct 9, 2017 2:26:16 GMT timokane said:

Wyre Conservatives seem to be in a state of turmoil just now having sacked their leader who sent this out to all Councillors last week.

Subject: null
From: "Cllr Gibson, Peter" <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 2017, 11:36
To: Cllrs All <[e-mail]>
Dear everybody,

As the cowardly act was taken to call the recent meeting when it was known I was on holiday it is time I had my say about the main instigators.

Alan Vincent was once suspended for 6 months by the Standards Board of England - the maximum suspension and recently proposed at LCC a restructure that was deemed illegal - this from a solicitor.

His son Michael represents Carleton ward and yet lives outside Wyre in Lytham.

Paul Moon is a Member of 2 authorities West Lancashire and Wyre so claims allowances from both authorities. He once threw face dog poo at a resident in the public gallery- hardly good judgment.

The wife of Pete Murphy came to my house and spoke to my partner and myself concerning HER alleged claim that he was violent towards her.

Unlike what was claimed by David Henderson in the press I have never had a conversation with him on my health issues.
He has never supported me but has supported his son and once considered standing down because it became public knowledge that his son had killed another man over a fight regarding a woman.

He once turned up at full council after a day out with his pals and bragged he had drank 10 pints.

The sister of Ron Greenhough has made an allegation that he had sex in the back of his taxi in lieu of charging a fayre.

These are the people who make a judgement on me. Next to them I look like Mother Theresa.

Garry Payne the Chief Exec has applied for the CEO job at Bolton. If he gets it and Alan Vincent stands down in December then Wyre could be without a Leader and CEO in a few months.

What a shambles - Wyre will become a laughingstock.

At least I gave Wyre almost 8 years of stability.





Sent from my iPad
Peter Gibson
Councillor
Breck Ward

[e-mail]
01253 887520 / 07903 115150
Civic Centre Breck Road, POULTON-LE-FYLDE, Lancashire, FY6 7PU

  Devil Wincarnate Very amusing that this is, I wonder if it is not also potentially libellous?

[Pete Whitehead]

Oct 9, 2017 0:36:44 GMT CatholicLeft said:

Oct 8, 2017 22:03:55 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

So obviously I had to go and spend half an hour doing some number crunching on the CC results. For what it's worth (and its worth half an hour of my time if nothing else) this is my estimate of how the ward voted in May:

Con   649 40.2%
Lab    489 30.3%
LD      335 20.8%
UKIP   98  6.1%
Grn     43  2.7%

It has to be borne in mind that neither of the county council divisions containing this ward offered any prospects for the Lib Dems who had significantly bigger fish to fry elsewhere in Three Rivers.

And even less informative I suspect, the figures from June (don't know how this compares with the EC numbers and can't be bothered to look)

Con  1689 48.3%
Lab   1400 40.0%
LD       251  7.2%
UKIP   110  3.1%
Grn      49   1.4%

Just for fun: EC guesses:

Con:   1699 44.34%
Lab:    1466 38.36%
LD:.       334.  8.72%
UKIP:    280. 7.31%
Grn:        35.  0.91%
Oth:.       18  0.47% (there were, of course, no others standing in either of the constituencies this ward is in).

Not that far off your calculations, @pete Whitehead.

According to the EC calculations Labour have a higher share of the vote in Oxhey Hall than in Hayling while the Lib Dems have a higher share of the vote than in Hayling than in Oxhey Hall. I think that tells us about all we need to know

[yellowperil]

Oct 8, 2017 12:31:54 GMT mattb said:

Are Three Rivers Labour getting desperate?
From their latest offering in Oxhey Hall & Hayling: "At the last local election here in July Labour got within an ace of beating the Conservatives."
Presumably they are referring to the Chorleywood South by-election in July - result LD 64% / Con 27% / Lab 7%.
Apart from being obviously deliberately misleading, that is - to put it politely - stretching the definitions of the word 'here' and the phrase 'within an ace'.

Maybe they conducted a straw poll in a pub?  Now suddenly the whole sentence makes sense

[Devil Wincarnate]

Oct 9, 2017 7:01:03 GMT @williamhone1780 said:

Oct 9, 2017 2:26:16 GMT timokane said:

Wyre Conservatives seem to be in a state of turmoil just now having sacked their leader who sent this out to all Councillors last week.

Subject: null
From: "Cllr Gibson, Peter" <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Oct 2017, 11:36
To: Cllrs All <[e-mail]>
Dear everybody,

As the cowardly act was taken to call the recent meeting when it was known I was on holiday it is time I had my say about the main instigators.

Alan Vincent was once suspended for 6 months by the Standards Board of England - the maximum suspension and recently proposed at LCC a restructure that was deemed illegal - this from a solicitor.

His son Michael represents Carleton ward and yet lives outside Wyre in Lytham.

Paul Moon is a Member of 2 authorities West Lancashire and Wyre so claims allowances from both authorities. He once threw face dog poo at a resident in the public gallery- hardly good judgment.

The wife of Pete Murphy came to my house and spoke to my partner and myself concerning HER alleged claim that he was violent towards her.

Unlike what was claimed by David Henderson in the press I have never had a conversation with him on my health issues.
He has never supported me but has supported his son and once considered standing down because it became public knowledge that his son had killed another man over a fight regarding a woman.

He once turned up at full council after a day out with his pals and bragged he had drank 10 pints.

The sister of Ron Greenhough has made an allegation that he had sex in the back of his taxi in lieu of charging a fayre.

These are the people who make a judgement on me. Next to them I look like Mother Theresa.

Garry Payne the Chief Exec has applied for the CEO job at Bolton. If he gets it and Alan Vincent stands down in December then Wyre could be without a Leader and CEO in a few months.

What a shambles - Wyre will become a laughingstock.

At least I gave Wyre almost 8 years of stability.





Sent from my iPad
Peter Gibson
Councillor
Breck Ward

[e-mail]
01253 887520 / 07903 115150
Civic Centre Breck Road, POULTON-LE-FYLDE, Lancashire, FY6 7PU

  Devil Wincarnate Very amusing that this is, I wonder if it is not also potentially libellous?

It would be best if timokane could confirm, but this appears to be in the public domain and I'm not convinced it affects this site as a result. AdminSTB?

[Davıd Boothroyd]

The letter being in the public domain would not affect a libel case.

The Paul Moon incident is covered here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12415693

[yellowperil]

The Email from Cllr Gibson contains at least 4 or 5 potentially libellous statements and William Hone is right if he urges caution in disseminating them. It is certainly right in one respect however - it will indeed make Wyre a laughing stock, and it calls into question the judgement of the man who was their council leader for 8 years.

I accept that we are in the clear in terms of libel as it is obviously in the public domain, but repeating the libels is pretty unsavoury unless we are in a position to prove them right

[AdminSTB]

I am on the phone today, so admin panel is awkward. Can another mod remove the potentially libellous statements please.

[CatholicLeft]

Oct 9, 2017 7:29:58 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

Oct 9, 2017 0:36:44 GMT CatholicLeft said:

Just for fun: EC guesses:

Con:   1699 44.34%
Lab:    1466 38.36%
LD:.       334.  8.72%
UKIP:    280. 7.31%
Grn:        35.  0.91%
Oth:.       18  0.47% (there were, of course, no others standing in either of the constituencies this ward is in).

Not that far off your calculations, @pete Whitehead.

According to the EC calculations Labour have a higher share of the vote in Oxhey Hall than in Hayling while the Lib Dems have a higher share of the vote than in Hayling than in Oxhey Hall. I think that tells us about all we need to know

I know, it is all fun. I still would like to know how what criteria they use to make these guesses/estimates, beyond p!ain guessing.

[timokane]

The email is in public domain and I was careful not to edit it which is why I left all the headers in it. The email was not sent in error and as you can see was sent at 1136am last Friday, so after the Tory Party Conference and designed to cause maximum embarrassment to Gibsons former colleagues. I thought about posting it in the Hilarity thread or Amazing Stupidity but felt that with a by election only days away this was the appropriate thread since the poster must have been well aware of the effect it would have on the election. I respect the fact that the forum has to be careful about libel but in this instance there is no nuance, finger pointing or guessing about the identities of individuals. It is what it says on the tin.

[ColinJ]

Oct 8, 2017 12:31:54 GMT mattb said:

Are Three Rivers Labour getting desperate?
From their latest offering in Oxhey Hall & Hayling: "At the last local election here in July Labour got within an ace of beating the Conservatives."
Presumably they are referring to the Chorleywood South by-election in July - result LD 64% / Con 27% / Lab 7%.
Apart from being obviously deliberately misleading, that is - to put it politely - stretching the definitions of the word 'here' and the phrase 'within an ace'.

I think this a case of not spotting a typographical error before going to print. The text should clearly have read ".... the last time you voted here in June ...." (or some such): as I understand it that is what the accompanying bar graph shows. I know there was no intention by the Labour agent to be misleading. A moment's reflection by the reader of the leaflet in question should lead to the conclusion that the statement and graph were a reference to the likely voting pattern in Oxhey Hall and Hayling at the General Election.

All parties are guilty of occasional typos; it is amusing to note that one of the Lib Dem colleagues of mattb , also on Three Rivers District Council, is a serial offender when it comes to typographical errors!!

[lbarnes]

The text doesn't refer to the general Election it specifically mentions the last local election.

Typo? No intention to mislead?

[Merseymike]

Frankly, I think its not advisable to go down the 'Winning Here!' style of campaigning in any case, but will the local voters care? Don't think so.

[ColinJ]

Oct 9, 2017 15:37:54 GMT lbarnes said:

The text doesn't refer to the general Election it specifically mentions the last local election.

Typo? No intention to mislead?

Absolutely, although arguably it might have been better to say "at the last election in this locality". However, the text does make clear we are dealing with the general election. Under the bar graph we find: "Official result - Watford Constituency June 2017 - Greens got 721 votes". 
[And the date was correct there! Only a lack of technical wizardry is preventing me from copying and pasting the leaflet into the discussion thread!]

[gwynthegriff]

Oct 3, 2017 23:29:10 GMT yellowperil said:

Oct 3, 2017 22:23:30 GMT An Sionnach Flannbhuí said:

Why? It may well be that you scramble for every vote in every godforsaken seat so your national party can later on do a "We won THIS many votes and under a fair voting system we'd have won THIS many seats" analysis and go on about the crucial issue of PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION. I can't see why the Conservative agent would give two hoots in a seat won with a 5-figure majority.

Yes because I believe in votes. I believe in the whole concept of the individual vote and equal worth of each  vote, and In that far more than support for a particular party, so yes I do believe in proportional representation.  I find the idea of casually not bothering about individual votes because the win is in the bag  deeply offensive, On Thursday, this week and next people will be voting in local by elections ( remember the thread?). Those individuals who cast their votes matter,  and if you do not subscribe to that belief why bother with a forum like this?

At the 2010 GE the declared result in Crewe & Nantwich was several dozen votes short of the verification total. I queried this with the RO but got short shrift as "it doesn't affect the result". Which was true, but a bit rough on the 60 or so voters whose votes had ... disappeared.

The discrepancy in the other Cheshire East constituencies were IIRC in single figures. Which suggests an incompetence which could extend to other failings.

[AdminSTB]

Oct 9, 2017 11:36:03 GMT timokane said:

The email is in public domain and I was careful not to edit it which is why I left all the headers in it. .

The public domain is not a defence against libel. Libel is libel.

I don't like removing things from the forum, but I have urged people to be careful a number of times.

I'm going to consider this one overnight.

[YL]

It's just about the Sheffield ward I know least well, but I thought I'd say a bit about Beighton. It has a fair amount in common with Mosborough, its neighbour to the south, which of course was won by the Lib Dems in a by-election not so long ago. However, unlike Mosborough, there's no history of Lib Dem challenges in Beighton; before the rise of UKIP the Tories tended to come second, and following their decline in Hallam it was one of their best wards in the city (e.g. in 2008 they got 31%, better than anywhere other than Dore & Totley). Then UKIP took over as the main anti-Labour option in east Sheffield, they started to come second, and the Tories fell away.

The Tories did quite well in June in Sheffield SE, and this would be their best ward in the constituency and again one of their best two or three in the city. I don't think they'll come close to winning with things as they are at the moment, but a strong second place seems likely, maybe back to about where they were in 2008.

Trees won't be that big an issue here compared with inner west Sheffield.

[Adam in Stroud]

Oct 9, 2017 19:51:13 GMT YL said:

It's just about the Sheffield ward I know least well, but I thought I'd say a bit about Beighton. It has a fair amount in common with Mosborough, its neighbour to the south, which of course was won by the Lib Dems in a by-election not so long ago. However, unlike Mosborough, there's no history of Lib Dem challenges in Beighton; before the rise of UKIP the Tories tended to come second, and following their decline in Hallam it was one of their best wards in the city (e.g. in 2008 they got 31%, better than anywhere other than Dore & Totley). Then UKIP took over as the main anti-Labour option in east Sheffield, they started to come second, and the Tories fell away.

The Tories did quite well in June in Sheffield SE, and this would be their best ward in the constituency and again one of their best two or three in the city. I don't think they'll come close to winning with things as they are at the moment, but a strong second place seems likely, maybe back to about where they were in 2008.

Trees won't be that big an issue here compared with inner west Sheffield.

A useful post.  The destination of the UKIP vote share here strikes me as a bit unpredictable in current conditions. And that includes the possibility of the destination being "at home" while other voters are mobilised.

[iain]

Oct 9, 2017 19:51:13 GMT YL said:

It's just about the Sheffield ward I know least well, but I thought I'd say a bit about Beighton. It has a fair amount in common with Mosborough, its neighbour to the south, which of course was won by the Lib Dems in a by-election not so long ago. However, unlike Mosborough, there's no history of Lib Dem challenges in Beighton; before the rise of UKIP the Tories tended to come second, and following their decline in Hallam it was one of their best wards in the city (e.g. in 2008 they got 31%, better than anywhere other than Dore & Totley). Then UKIP took over as the main anti-Labour option in east Sheffield, they started to come second, and the Tories fell away.

The Tories did quite well in June in Sheffield SE, and this would be their best ward in the constituency and again one of their best two or three in the city. I don't think they'll come close to winning with things as they are at the moment, but a strong second place seems likely, maybe back to about where they were in 2008.

Trees won't be that big an issue here compared with inner west Sheffield.

I will be very surprised if the Tories come any better than third in Beighton.

[greenchristian]

Oct 9, 2017 15:41:21 GMT Merseymike said:

Frankly, I think its not advisable to go down the 'Winning Here!' style of campaigning in any case, but will the local voters care? Don't think so.

As long as you're honestly representing recent results and not misleading the voters I don't see any problem with it. Obviously the tactic is only necessary for smaller parties who need to break through the "a vote for you is a wasted vote" mindset, and there can't be many places where that would be a problem for Labour.