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Post by edgbaston on Jun 22, 2023 11:07:12 GMT
I don't think the size needs increasing a huge amount, but the addition of just one more constituency seat would massively improve the boundaries in the North East of the region and the overall disparity between seats. What arrangement were you thinking? Move City of London to West Central, then turn the rest of the three north-eastern constituencies into four pairs: Islington & Hackney, Tower Hamlets & Newham; Waltham Forest & Ilford; Havering & B&D? The last would be a bit on the small side, but only to about the same extent West Central currently is and much less than City & East and North East are currently on the large side. Yup! Exactly what I had in mind. ‘City and East’, ‘North East’ and ‘Havering and Redbridge’ are awful awful seats. ‘Barnet and Camden’ is pretty bad too but I can’t see much of an alternative there without creating bigger issues elsewhere?
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 22, 2023 11:32:23 GMT
If you don't mind worsening electoral equality, you could pair Camden with Brent and Barnet with Harrow, but I'm not sure that's any better.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jun 22, 2023 14:22:36 GMT
Umm, no, not really. That's to say, I've looked at it a few times, but not for quite a while - and I was completely unaware of the linked but separate mapping facility. Obviously, I would have presented better-informed arguments, and not have felt a need to raise some of the questions that I did, if I had recognised where the map on the tweet had come from. Indeed, without very much more effort, I could have got myself actual and understandable figures to work with. However, my analysis of the constituencies with the highest proportions of signatories largely stands, I think (though information from the website would have let me present it rather better), as (with the exception of the half-sentence in which I speculate about the petition) do my remarks in the final paragraph.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jun 22, 2023 16:50:00 GMT
In some contexts, 66,000+ might be considered a large number. However, in this one, it is equivalent to a bit over 1% of the total Greater London electorate, though it should be noted that we don't know how the signatories were contacted and, on the information given, it looks probable that quite a few of them actually come from neighbouring parts of the Home Counties rather than from Greater London itself. ... And what the views of people outside Greater London are should be considered (at least for as long as there are no serious proposals even under consideration for expanding Greater London) as of no relevance on this matter. As I've previously noted, the petition is asking for the electorate in such a referendum to be "all voters within the M25" (poor North Ockendon) so some of these are more relevant than that. As I have now made clear in another post, I had not realised that the petition was a parliamentary one, and so was working entirely from the information in the quoted tweet. I had therefore neither realised that the petition was proposing a referendum electorate of "all voters within the M25" nor indeed connected it up with your note from February. Having said that, while the petition makes it clear that it is motivated by opposition to the ULEZ, the referendum it is proposing does not formally relate to the ULEZ but would radically affect the basic governance of Greater London. It is definitely possible to realise that at least some people living in areas neighbouring but not in Greater London can have cogent reasons for opposing the ULEZ - they do not live in the area that will be covered by it but they still have what they consider to be good reasons for wanting to drive into that area on a regular basis. Or, indeed, drive through that area to somewhere else beyond it because of a lack of good routes avoiding the area. Some of what they consider to be good reasons will fairly certainly not be as good as they think they are, but enough of what they consider sufficiently good will be to (potentially) give them a justifiable grievance. Moreover, while there are some compensatory measures available for inhabitants of Greater London adversely affected by the introduction of the ULEZ, these are not available to non-Londoners. All of this almost certainly explains why the signature rate in, for instance, Spelthorne is as high as it is. Though this rather suggests that Spelthorne signatories are actually treating the petition as proposing a referendum on the ULEZ. If this was indeed what was being proposed, then I can understand why they would want votes for themselves - even if I might disagree, and want to see if there was another way of taking their views into account. However, the M25 criterion would still not only be distinctly arbitrary (why should Waltham Cross and Potters Bar be excluded when Radlett and Abbots Langley are included?) but, I think, excessive - it would certainly cover Spelthorne and similar areas, but it would also include some fairly large populations who would be far less affected. But, of course, what the referendum would actually propose is that people elected by Greater London voters to govern Greater London - the Mayor and Assembly - be removed. The suggested referendum question is itself highly defective, leaving any detail about whether, how or by whose decision and/or action any replacement (or even method of replacement) for them should be determined - in effect, how London should be governed afterwards - to be considered only after the vote had taken place and the result announced. To encourage Londoners to vote themselves into conditions of chaos would be irresponsible in the extreme - to include non-Londoners (who could expect arrangements for their own local governance to remain unaltered) in such a vote would be totally undemocratic (as would be including London voters in such a vote affecting somewhere else).
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jun 22, 2023 21:31:39 GMT
Is North Ockendon the only part of Greater London outside the M25? I know it's the only place of any size but I'm sure I once read that there are a couple of houses in the very far north and far west that are outside the motorway. Because the northern boundary of Enfield and the western boundary of Hillingdon is sometimes placed at the farthest extent of the highway land, there is some land outside the M25 but inside Greater London between Potters Bar and Waltham Cross, and just outside Poyle - but it doesn't seem to have any buildings on it. Before about 1993, the northern boundary of Enfield followed the old northern boundary of Middlesex - in principle, not very different from the current M25 boundary (sometimes north of it, sometimes south), but almost totally different in detail. The main difference between the old and new boundaries is that, at their western end, the old Middlesex northern boundary was about three-quarters of a mile due north of where the M25 now is (but wasn't until about 1980). Before 1993, the Enfield boundary ran in a straight line between the M25 and the old Middlesex boundary. Going west to east, the old Middlesex (and Enfield) northern boundary ran slightly south of east until it met and crossed the M25 after about three miles, after which it mostly ran a short but varying distance south of the M25, though the easternmost section south of Waltham Cross through to the Lea ran very close to the M25. There was therefore a roughly long thin triangular area running eastward from Potters Bar, of somewhere around a square mile, that was in Greater London but north of the M25 (once built). This is entirely countryside, a mixture of farmland and woodland, but contains (and presumably contained) one or two fairly substantial farm buildings (exact status/use unknown).
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 22, 2023 23:01:18 GMT
Kieran Terry selected as the Conservative candidate for Greenwich & Lewisham.
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Post by andrewteale on Jun 22, 2023 23:36:35 GMT
Conservative candidate for Brent and Harrow is Stefan Voloseniuc. Anglo-Romanian businessman; stood in the Barnhill ward byelection in Brent in January 2020. Voloseniuc was also an unsuccessful candidate to Harrow Council in 2022, losing in Edgware ward. The SOPN showed "(address in Brent)", possibly aiding the single Labour hold in the ward In between he was a candidate for the Romanian Senate in December 2020. Voloseniuc launched an election petition against the Barnhill result, seeking a recount. It didn't go well for him.
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Post by markfoster on Jun 22, 2023 23:41:30 GMT
Voloseniuc was also an unsuccessful candidate to Harrow Council in 2022, losing in Edgware ward. The SOPN showed "(address in Brent)", possibly aiding the single Labour hold in the ward In between he was a candidate for the Romanian Senate in December 2020. That does seem rather odd. I can't imagine it's all that common for people to contest elections in two different countries.
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Post by stb12 on Jun 22, 2023 23:49:35 GMT
In between he was a candidate for the Romanian Senate in December 2020. That does seem rather odd. I can't imagine it's all that common for people to contest elections in two different countries. James Goldsmith?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 22, 2023 23:50:16 GMT
David Steel famously stood for the European Parliament in Italy in 1989.
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Post by stb12 on Jun 22, 2023 23:52:57 GMT
I imagine a few Irish Nationalist politicians will have stood in Northern Ireland and the Republic especially during the Troubles era
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 22, 2023 23:59:29 GMT
I imagine a few Irish Nationalist politicians will have stood in Northern Ireland and the Republic especially during the Troubles era DeV was actually elected to Stormont for South Down in 1933 (didn't go, obviously).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 1:29:06 GMT
David Steel famously stood for the European Parliament in Italy in 1989. Why on Earth did he do that?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 3:51:30 GMT
Pearce Branigan selected as the Conservative candidate for North East. One for the ‘Good looking’ thread. If we’re keeping up with that sort of thing.
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Post by froome on Jun 23, 2023 4:51:57 GMT
Do you have to be especially tall to be a Conservative candidate, or do they just surround them with much smaller supporters in the photos? The last two have been notably taller than everyone around them.
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Post by batman on Jun 23, 2023 8:11:56 GMT
That does seem rather odd. I can't imagine it's all that common for people to contest elections in two different countries. James Goldsmith? Gerry Adams, also Austin Currie
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Post by markfoster on Jun 23, 2023 9:59:06 GMT
Do you have to be especially tall to be a Conservative candidate, or do they just surround them with much smaller supporters in the photos? The last two have been notably taller than everyone around them. They were clearly head and shoulders above the rest! (I'll get my coat.)
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 23, 2023 10:05:12 GMT
David Steel famously stood for the European Parliament in Italy in 1989. Why on Earth did he do that? Because they asked him to. It was a "pan-European gesture".
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 23, 2023 10:40:44 GMT
Gerald Strickland was the Leader of the Opposition in Malta (1921-1927) and Prime Minister (1927-1932) whilst also serving as the MP for Lancaster between 1924 and 1928. He left the Commons in 1928 after being appointed a Peer.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 23, 2023 16:00:22 GMT
Good old Orpington. Lived there in my last year in the uk and it's profoundly normal by London standards. Was sad to leave. Were I to ever move to London, I'd live there or neighbouring Chelsfield.
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