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Post by lancastrian on Jan 12, 2019 20:04:39 GMT
We can't negotiate alone. The deal we have now is the only deal the EU is interested in. Corbyn probably won't get anything else except perhaps EEA, but his election is the only plausible reason to go back to the negotiating table. Another year or whatever of May negotiating will just extend the current deadlock. if this deal doesn't go through and A50 is revoked what incentive is there to keep pushing for this deal If it is revoked Brexit is dead, end of story. If there are more negotiations following an extension why would the EU offer anything better - they've already made a deal as far they're concerned, and they plainly aren't interested in making it any easier to leave the club.
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middyman
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"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
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Post by middyman on Jan 12, 2019 20:14:35 GMT
if this deal doesn't go through and A50 is revoked what incentive is there to keep pushing for this deal If it is revoked Brexit is dead, end of story. If there are more negotiations following an extension why would the EU offer anything better - they've already made a deal as far they're concerned, and they plainly aren't interested in making it any easier to leave the club. They are not interested in a different deal because they are getting everything they wanted - cash and a rock-solid negotiating position of strength for the FTA negotiations, and this has cost them ..... nothing. Until it becomes worth their while to make concessions, there is no reason for them to do so.
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Post by lancastrian on Jan 12, 2019 20:24:20 GMT
If it is revoked Brexit is dead, end of story. If there are more negotiations following an extension why would the EU offer anything better - they've already made a deal as far they're concerned, and they plainly aren't interested in making it any easier to leave the club. They are not interested in a different deal because they are getting everything they wanted - cash and a rock-solid negotiating position of strength for the FTA negotiations, and this has cost them ..... nothing. Until it becomes worth their while to make concessions, there is no reason for them to do so. Exactly. And what can May or Corbyn or anyone else do to change that? Of course you might say then don't leave, but is 'we'll screw you if you leave' a reason to want to be a member of anything?
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
Posts: 8,050
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Post by middyman on Jan 12, 2019 20:33:22 GMT
They are not interested in a different deal because they are getting everything they wanted - cash and a rock-solid negotiating position of strength for the FTA negotiations, and this has cost them ..... nothing. Until it becomes worth their while to make concessions, there is no reason for them to do so. Exactly. And what can May or Corbyn or anyone else do to change that? Of course you might say then don't leave, but is 'we'll screw you if you leave' a reason to want to be a member of anything? This is the damage being done by MPs giving comfort to the EU by trying to rule out the possibility of no deal.
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Deleted
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Survation
Jan 12, 2019 21:49:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 21:49:32 GMT
if this deal doesn't go through and A50 is revoked what incentive is there to keep pushing for this deal If it is revoked Brexit is dead, end of story. If there are more negotiations following an extension why would the EU offer anything better - they've already made a deal as far they're concerned, and they plainly aren't interested in making it any easier to leave the club. unless the EU pull out of negiotations which you don't seem to think they will as you say negiotations can continue after an extension then the government will return to parliament with a withdrawal agreement based on negiotations after the extension
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Post by lancastrian on Jan 12, 2019 22:12:52 GMT
If it is revoked Brexit is dead, end of story. If there are more negotiations following an extension why would the EU offer anything better - they've already made a deal as far they're concerned, and they plainly aren't interested in making it any easier to leave the club. unless the EU pull out of negiotations which you don't seem to think they will as you say negiotations can continue after an extension then the government will return to parliament with a withdrawal agreement based on negiotations after the extension I think they might have more talks, I don't think they'll budge. The 'best' bespoke deal Corbyn could ever present to parliament is May's deal.
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Deleted
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Jan 12, 2019 22:31:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 22:31:56 GMT
unless the EU pull out of negiotations which you don't seem to think they will as you say negiotations can continue after an extension then the government will return to parliament with a withdrawal agreement based on negiotations after the extension I think they might have more talks, I don't think they'll budge. The 'best' bespoke deal Corbyn could ever present to parliament is May's deal. there are reports that May is trying to get a full CU to convince Labour MPs onside. Could be rubbish. Could be the EU budging to give May something that she believes MPs will vote for
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 12, 2019 23:29:36 GMT
unless the EU pull out of negiotations which you don't seem to think they will as you say negiotations can continue after an extension then the government will return to parliament with a withdrawal agreement based on negiotations after the extension I think they might have more talks, I don't think they'll budge. The 'best' bespoke deal Corbyn could ever present to parliament is May's deal. In that case a second referendum would confirm a Leave vote without a deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 18:24:02 GMT
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Tony Otim
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Suffering from Brexistential Despair
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Post by Tony Otim on Feb 3, 2019 17:16:45 GMT
Er... Women's Equality Party surge?😉
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 4, 2019 22:59:59 GMT
No significant change. + or - 1 might just be one person.
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Post by lbarnes on Feb 5, 2019 12:44:39 GMT
No significant change. + or - 1 might just be one person. Or everybody.
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 5, 2019 21:28:20 GMT
Indeed!
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hedgehog
Non-Aligned
Enter your message here...
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 19, 2019 3:38:42 GMT
Interesting polling stats here on the new independent group:
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 19, 2019 10:37:18 GMT
Half of their putative 8% score comes from the LibDems, which will surprise some pundits (but less so those who actually understand these things)
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 19, 2019 17:54:24 GMT
Well it's all garbage really at this stage. The only overall confirmation from this poll is that the Labour Party may be rather on the skids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 17:59:58 GMT
Well it's all garbage really at this stage. The only overall confirmation from this poll is that the Labour Party may be rather on the skids. on the skids?
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Post by BossMan on Feb 19, 2019 18:31:59 GMT
Half of their putative 8% score comes from the LibDems, which will surprise some pundits (but less so those who actually understand these things) This could potentially force TIG and the Lib Dems to come to some sort of electoral arrangement to avoid an election performance even worse than 2015.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 19, 2019 18:40:23 GMT
Half of their putative 8% score comes from the LibDems, which will surprise some pundits (but less so those who actually understand these things) This could potentially force TIG and the Lib Dems to come to some sort of electoral arrangement to avoid an election performance even worse than 2015. It would, I suspect, be relatively painless. There is - currently - little overlap between TIG seats and Lib Dem targets. If the TIG grows then it could be rather more complex.
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Feb 19, 2019 18:46:29 GMT
The TIG isn't even a party yet is it?
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