Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2018 22:08:11 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 13, 2018 22:13:39 GMT
All aboard the clown car.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 6:50:30 GMT
Incredible that Berlusconi is probably the most serious right/populist leader in Italy...
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Post by Antiochian on May 14, 2018 7:46:51 GMT
Incredible that Berlusconi is probably the most serious right/populist leader in Italy... Thirty years of "seriousness" have devastated the Italian economy. It's a sign of the desperation of the Italian population that they have clutched at these straws. Not everyone can up sticks and move to London to be a barista as the EU would have them do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 8:15:43 GMT
Incredible that Berlusconi is probably the most serious right/populist leader in Italy... Thirty years of "seriousness" have devastated the Italian economy. It's a sign of the desperation of the Italian population that they have clutched at these straws. Not everyone can up sticks and move to London to be a barista as the EU would have them do. Are you actually arguing Italian politics has been serious prior to now?
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Post by Antiochian on May 14, 2018 8:19:34 GMT
Thirty years of "seriousness" have devastated the Italian economy. It's a sign of the desperation of the Italian population that they have clutched at these straws. Not everyone can up sticks and move to London to be a barista as the EU would have them do. Are you actually arguing Italian politics has been serious prior to now? No.... but the economy worked.... mainly due to the black economy which has been driven even deeper underground by the Euro-strictures. It also didn't help that the footwear and textile industries were sacrificed on the altar of globalisation.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 14, 2018 8:41:06 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years?
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Post by carlton43 on May 14, 2018 8:52:43 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years? Frankly is it that different in Britain, France, Portugal and Spain? Possibly worse in Sweden?
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Richard Allen
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Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
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Post by Richard Allen on May 14, 2018 9:19:57 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years? Frankly is it that different in Britain, France, Portugal and Spain? Possibly worse in Sweden? Well the Italians have been churning out consistently awful politicians for far longer than we have but we are rapidly catching them up.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 14, 2018 11:41:33 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years? Frankly is it that different in Britain, France, Portugal and Spain? Possibly worse in Sweden? Better than Belgium, they can have that. And Spain.
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spqr
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Post by spqr on May 14, 2018 12:06:25 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years? It's worth pointing out, though, that there have been a few politicians of genuine quality floating amidst the sea of dross - Giovanni Amendola, Ferruccio Parri, De Gasperi, Raniero Panzieri, Enrico Berlinguer, Ugo La Malfa, Pertini, Vittorio Foa, Marco Pannella, Antonio Di Pietro... Some of them could even have been effective, had they been allowed. The PCI, despite having a multitude of fixers on its Right wing - the younger Amendola, Napolitano, Occhetto - was especially blessed in this regard during its post-war ascendancy (relatively speaking). This explained its electoral appeal to a greater degree than many foreign policy analysts seemed to realise at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 12:29:08 GMT
How is it that the land of Caesar, Augustus, Cosimo di Medici, Sforza, Machiavelli and Cavour has churned out such awful politicians for 150 years? Italy has actually produced many politicians of ability - including during the much-maligned post-war era - but has a toxic political culture. The historical reasons for this include - the absence of any national consensus, due to regional disparities and ideological fragmentation; and
- a hopeless constitution, which made real change next to impossible, destroyed accountability and made deal-making and even corruption the basis of political life.
In the last couple of decades, there have of course been constitutional and political changes but, at the same time, the economic woes that Italy has suffered due to its membership of the Eurozone have further poisoned the country's politics. EDIT I see spqr made some of these points already.
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Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 14, 2018 14:17:27 GMT
NoNo, Italy has been THE country of intrigant OldBoys with their BackroomDeals - not very deep&durable, but still admireable!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 19:38:02 GMT
Well, surprise, surprise, they couldn't keep their own deadline. "Italy’s anti-establishment Five Star Movement and the far-right League have pleaded for a “few more days” to seal their alliance to govern the eurozone’s third-largest economy, after failing to agree on a prime minister to lead their populist coalition." www.ft.com/content/bafe6e20-5735-11e8-bdb7-f6677d2e1ce8
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Post by beesknee5 on May 15, 2018 21:47:26 GMT
Draft agreement between two parties leaked
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 16, 2018 7:20:14 GMT
"Government of Change". Well that's one way of putting it.
The North facilitating the revenge of the Two Sicilies!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 9:55:55 GMT
A further interesting thread by Alberto Nardelli -
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 17, 2018 16:08:52 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 16:33:35 GMT
This is all shaping up very nicely. The pretence that this is manageable will continue until the next economic downturn. 2019? 2020?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 11:19:49 GMT
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