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Post by Antiochian on Feb 3, 2017 18:35:39 GMT
The party are now all so enamoured of Tim's Brexit role (for which he is getting airtime, let's give him his due) that if we had a by-election with a really super leadership candidate elected, that person would not get a look in for a very long time. (Though back to the old theme that SWMBO's favorite PPCs are not really fit for purpose for ministerial roles let alone leadership ones so a "super" by-election winner is not likely). Any other party in any other country would have chosen a leader from the much more varied talent pool of our Lords contingent and wound things back to the 1800s where leaders came out of the Lords as much as out of the Commons.. but, no, the orthodoxy of the party says that our Lords are just there to bide their time till Gabriel blows his trumpet and they all drink the Kool Aid and lead us into the promised land of an elected upper house (in which most of them wouldn't get elected).. sigh... I'm not sure which of these is the weirder. On the first, if the "really super leadership candidate" was a retread (i.e. a Steve Webb or similar) then the fact that they had lost in '15 would surely count against them; if a new person then their lack of experience would. Anyone who arrives in the Commons during this parliament will clearly be relevant post-2020. On the second, the idea that a serious 21st C British political party can be led from outside its elected parliamentarians is ... interesting. Why would having lost in 2015 count against them when we all know they lost because of the MP for Sheffield Hallam , who did not lose? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 3, 2017 18:49:25 GMT
Contradict yourself there, Anthony... Those LibDems citing out of date arguments/statistics for Remain are not an isolated few but a startlingly large number and they definitely have control of the party megaphones (for the moment). Doesn't bother me particularly as they just end up hoist on their own petard. The 25-30% of the membership/supporters that are not of the Remain camp are just awaiting the day when reality hits that Brexit is happening and once again we have missed the opportunity to guide the process by making like ostriches and burying our collective heads in the sand. Its interesting that the most offensive abuser of the "lower downs" in the LibDem Voice forums gets away with it with impunity over there and yet when he pops his head up in here he gets a rightly deserved "punishment beating" from those of other parties, or no party, who don't feel the same LibDem qualms at calling out such a pompous self-serving elitist.. Speak for yourself. This "not of the Remain camp" Lib Dem thinks our approach is just fine. |
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Post by Antiochian on Feb 3, 2017 19:59:20 GMT
Contradict yourself there, Anthony... Those LibDems citing out of date arguments/statistics for Remain are not an isolated few but a startlingly large number and they definitely have control of the party megaphones (for the moment). Doesn't bother me particularly as they just end up hoist on their own petard. The 25-30% of the membership/supporters that are not of the Remain camp are just awaiting the day when reality hits that Brexit is happening and once again we have missed the opportunity to guide the process by making like ostriches and burying our collective heads in the sand. Its interesting that the most offensive abuser of the "lower downs" in the LibDem Voice forums gets away with it with impunity over there and yet when he pops his head up in here he gets a rightly deserved "punishment beating" from those of other parties, or no party, who don't feel the same LibDem qualms at calling out such a pompous self-serving elitist.. Speak for yourself. This "not of the Remain camp" Lib Dem thinks our approach is just fine. I am cool with the pro-EU tack.. Any port in a storm... just think it is wrong long term... good niche strategy though... I would promote it as far as it will go if I was Tim and nuance it.. but I suspect nuance is not in his toolkit. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Feb 3, 2017 20:22:13 GMT
Speak for yourself. This "not of the Remain camp" Lib Dem thinks our approach is just fine. I am cool with the pro-EU tack.. Any port in a storm... just think it is wrong long term... good niche strategy though... I would promote it as far as it will go if I was Tim and nuance it.. but I suspect nuance is not in his toolkit. On the subject of out of date statistics, does that 25-30% of the membership who want to Leave include the 4,000 members who joined since Labour decided to whip a vote in favour of article 50? Or the nigh-on 18,000 who joined in 2016, of whom I bet more than half joined after the Referendum? Membership at the end of 2015 was just over 61,500, so the c21,500 who have joined since then represent well over one third of the 2015 total membership. Maybe they all want to Leave too, but if so it doesn't seem to be an obstacle to joining. |
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Post by mrpastelito on Feb 3, 2017 20:28:23 GMT
A simple question to the yellow fellows: do you think there is a place at all in your party for Leavers? Or should they quit the LDs and join another party the sooner the better? Or, more likely, should the stay in the party, pay their membership fees, support by-election campaigns around the country and otherwise just keep their mouth shut?
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Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 3, 2017 20:31:38 GMT
A simple question to the yellow fellows: do you think there is a place at all in your party for Leavers? Or should they quit the LDs and join another party the sooner the better? Or, more likely, should the stay in the party, pay their membership fees, support by-election campaigns around the country and otherwise just keep their mouth shut? Well, I voted Yes to Scottish independence, and I'm still happily delivering leaflets for the party. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Feb 3, 2017 20:41:56 GMT
A simple question to the yellow fellows: do you think there is a place at all in your party for Leavers? Or should they quit the LDs and join another party the sooner the better? Or, more likely, should the stay in the party, pay their membership fees, support by-election campaigns around the country and otherwise just keep their mouth shut? Yes. There are plenty of policies to consider apart from membership of the EU. If the party had said on 24th June "oh well, that's it for Europe" I'd have been disconsolate but I'd still have voted LD in preference to the other lot(s). And it is healthy to have a critique of the EU from people who do so from a liberal perspective rather than from the right, since that helps us understand what is wrong with the EU in our terms and therefore where we would like it to change if we ever re-join and where we would like to change British laws and policies if we stay out. They should only leave the party if they feel their support for Leave outweighs other considerations. But I think it should be a requirement of anyone representing the party to avoid undermining or attacking agreed party policy. If you are talking to the public while wearing a yellow rosette and you say "personally I'm in favour of Leaving" that's fine; if you say "it's a disgrace that the party is not respecting the referendum result" that isn't. I suppose the test is; if you are talking to the public and they are asking themselves "Bloody hell, why is this guy in the LDs?" you probably should ask yourself the same question. |
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Post by Antiochian on Feb 3, 2017 20:59:56 GMT
I am cool with the pro-EU tack.. Any port in a storm... just think it is wrong long term... good niche strategy though... I would promote it as far as it will go if I was Tim and nuance it.. but I suspect nuance is not in his toolkit. On the subject of out of date statistics, does that 25-30% of the membership who want to Leave include the 4,000 members who joined since Labour decided to whip a vote in favour of article 50? Or the nigh-on 18,000 who joined in 2016, of whom I bet more than half joined after the Referendum? Membership at the end of 2015 was just over 61,500, so the c21,500 who have joined since then represent well over one third of the 2015 total membership. Maybe they all want to Leave too, but if so it doesn't seem to be an obstacle to joining. Or does it include the joiners since May 2015 that have fallen by the wayside.. and someone in LDV is now claiming our members are dying at the rate of 1.2% per month (14.4% per annum.. WTH?  ) ... Who knows? Maybe when Tim decides to publish the result of the internal party survey that apparently now is in the Index Prohibitorum kept at Great George Street, then we'll know what members really think. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135 
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Post by Foggy on Feb 4, 2017 0:01:12 GMT
On the second, the idea that a serious 21st C British political party can be led from outside its elected parliamentarians is ... interesting. [ my emphasis]  |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 4, 2017 13:11:04 GMT
A simple question to the yellow fellows: do you think there is a place at all in your party for Leavers? Or should they quit the LDs and join another party the sooner the better? Or, more likely, should the stay in the party, pay their membership fees, support by-election campaigns around the country and otherwise just keep their mouth shut? yes, no, yes, no  |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 4, 2017 13:14:17 GMT
On the subject of out of date statistics, does that 25-30% of the membership who want to Leave include the 4,000 members who joined since Labour decided to whip a vote in favour of article 50? Or the nigh-on 18,000 who joined in 2016, of whom I bet more than half joined after the Referendum? Membership at the end of 2015 was just over 61,500, so the c21,500 who have joined since then represent well over one third of the 2015 total membership. Maybe they all want to Leave too, but if so it doesn't seem to be an obstacle to joining. Or does it include the joiners since May 2015 that have fallen by the wayside.. and someone in LDV is now claiming our members are dying at the rate of 1.2% per month (14.4% per annum.. WTH? ) ... Who knows? Maybe when Tim decides to publish the result of the internal party survey that apparently now is in the Index Prohibitorum kept at Great George Street, then we'll know what members really think. You are Dan Brown and I claim my £10 prize. |
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Post by Antiochian on Feb 4, 2017 13:27:20 GMT
Or does it include the joiners since May 2015 that have fallen by the wayside.. and someone in LDV is now claiming our members are dying at the rate of 1.2% per month (14.4% per annum.. WTH? ) ... Who knows? Maybe when Tim decides to publish the result of the internal party survey that apparently now is in the Index Prohibitorum kept at Great George Street, then we'll know what members really think. You are Dan Brown and I claim my £10 prize. what does that mean? you do know that the results of the party survey have been sealed in a vault to be opened in 500 years?  |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Feb 7, 2017 9:56:21 GMT
What's this about a party survey?
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 24, 2020 20:34:24 GMT
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) ...
