hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 17, 2017 13:37:51 GMT
Yes, but as major builders have the financial muscle, they can speculate buy and bank land, also economics of scale, and selling at 'market' prices, pretty hard for a community group who want to build houses for their children to be able to buy and live locally to compete. Many of these communities that go NIMBY, are naturally Conservatives voters, instinctively pro capitalist, except they realise in a number of ways the free market fails the people, society and the enviroment. No, they realise that new development may affect the value of their property and, in my experience, they have a particular objection to affordable/social housing because it may result in their social inferiors moving into the area. Snobbery is a bigger factor in NIMBYism than environmentalism. How much of that cynicism comes from living the last 38 years in a posts Thatcherite Britain, I try to cling onto the belief that at heart the majority of people still do things for the right reasons. |
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 17, 2017 13:46:55 GMT
Like I said...slack water. Anyone who makes a wave...
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 17, 2017 13:49:01 GMT
More houses, more houses that a large proportion of society have no hope of buying, more second homes, more homes built not out of need but to produce dividends for shareholders. If no one can afford to buy them, then no one will buy them. If no one will buy them, then no one will build them- or if they do and are then not sold, then the prices will come down. Of course, in your strange little world, lots of people will want to buy second homes in Hemel Hempstead and Baskingstoke... How far do you get out of the London commuter belt, have a look at the pretty villages in the South West, Yorkshire etc, homes that come on the market are unaffordable for locals, priced out by the second home buyers. |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 17, 2017 13:49:48 GMT
No, they realise that new development may affect the value of their property and, in my experience, they have a particular objection to affordable/social housing because it may result in their social inferiors moving into the area. Snobbery is a bigger factor in NIMBYism than environmentalism. How much of that cynicism comes from living the last 38 years in a posts Thatcherite Britain, I try to cling onto the belief that at heart the majority of people still do things for the right reasons. You will be disappointed. People are essentially selfish and greedy as any person observing a fixed price self-serve carvery, a free bar or the January sales can see. We all pretend otherwise but it is pretence. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 17, 2017 13:56:04 GMT
If no one can afford to buy them, then no one will buy them. If no one will buy them, then no one will build them- or if they do and are then not sold, then the prices will come down. Of course, in your strange little world, lots of people will want to buy second homes in Hemel Hempstead and Baskingstoke... How farm do you get out of the London commuter belt, have a look at the pretty villages in the South West, Yorkshire etc, homes that come on the market are unaffordable for locals, priced out by the second home buyers. How far do I get out of the South East? Last week I was in Burnley, Halifax and Rochdale, and this weekend I will be in South Staffordshire and the Black Country. To be fair, I will be in Surrey next weekend, but then the following weekend I will be in Hartlepool and Newcastle. |
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 17, 2017 14:43:02 GMT
How farm do you get out of the London commuter belt, have a look at the pretty villages in the South West, Yorkshire etc, homes that come on the market are unaffordable for locals, priced out by the second home buyers. How far do I get out of the South East? Last week I was in Burnley, Halifax and Rochdale, and this weekend I will be in South Staffordshire and the Black Country. To be fair, I will be in Surrey next weekend, but then the following weekend I will be in Hartlepool and Newcastle. Here's a couple of Stories from Norfolk, the first about the high percentage of second homes and the second about where thousands of new homes will have to be built in the county, www.edp24.co.uk/property/national_housing_federation_figures_reveal_second_home_ownership_crisis_in_north_norfolk_1_4876507 www.edp24.co.uk/home/hundreds_of_sites_where_new_homes_could_be_built_in_norwich_broadland_and_south_norfolk_revealed_1_4761802 now I don't fundamentally disagree with a persons right to own a holiday home and of course a ban on holiday homes wouldn't mean that no more houses building would be necessary nationally. But second homes are a serious problem for many rural communities and simply building more homes will not solve rural housing needs, under the free market, a majority of new builds could simply became more second homes, the answer to our housing crisis won't be solved simply by an increase in supply, many many factors are at work in our housing market, simple supply and demand economics will simply cause more urban encroachment on our countryside. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 17, 2017 17:49:22 GMT
How far do I get out of the South East? Last week I was in Burnley, Halifax and Rochdale, and this weekend I will be in South Staffordshire and the Black Country. To be fair, I will be in Surrey next weekend, but then the following weekend I will be in Hartlepool and Newcastle. Here's a couple of Stories from Norfolk, the first about the high percentage of second homes and the second about where thousands of new homes will have to be built in the county, www.edp24.co.uk/property/national_housing_federation_figures_reveal_second_home_ownership_crisis_in_north_norfolk_1_4876507 www.edp24.co.uk/home/hundreds_of_sites_where_new_homes_could_be_built_in_norwich_broadland_and_south_norfolk_revealed_1_4761802 now I don't fundamentally disagree with a persons right to own a holiday home and of course a ban on holiday homes wouldn't mean that no more houses building would be necessary nationally. But second homes are a serious problem for many rural communities and simply building more homes will not solve rural housing needs, under the free market, a majority of new builds could simply became more second homes, the answer to our housing crisis won't be solved simply by an increase in supply, many many factors are at work in our housing market, simple supply and demand economics will simply cause more urban encroachment on our countryside. So what's your solution? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 17, 2017 18:01:26 GMT
Knock all houses down. Then no one can have a first, let alone second, home. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 17, 2017 18:30:19 GMT
Well, is the current system working for anyone? NOTHING will work for EVERYONE. That is my point. It can't. We want completely different outcomes. I don't even have the same wishes as I did at 50 let alone at 25! Yes, we're well aware that at your age you've accepted that things can't be perfect and life isn't fair, and think everyone else should be resigned to that too. There's probably some wisdom in that, but on this particular issue, we do as a nation need housing to work for basically everyone. For every person failed by the housing system there is a frustrated thirtysomething, retired parent impatient to get rid of their still-dependent/cohabiting adult offspring, or simply another beggar on the street. I don't think anybody should welcome any of those situations becoming exacerbated. More houses, more houses that a large proportion of society have no hope of buying, more second homes, more homes built not out of need but to produce dividends for shareholders. Of course, in your strange little world, lots of people will want to buy second homes in Hemel Hempstead and Baskingstoke... I'm not sure about 'Baskingstoke' (is that a town full of sharks?), but I know from family experience that a second home in Basingstoke isn't just something hedgehog has imagined. |
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Post by Antiochian on Feb 17, 2017 18:42:23 GMT
NOTHING will work for EVERYONE. That is my point. It can't. We want completely different outcomes. I don't even have the same wishes as I did at 50 let alone at 25! Yes, we're well aware that at your age you've accepted that things can't be perfect and life isn't fair, and think everyone else should be resigned to that too. There's probably some wisdom in that, but on this particular issue, we do as a nation need housing to work for basically everyone. For every person failed by the housing system there is a frustrated thirtysomething, retired parent impatient to get rid of their still-dependent/cohabiting adult offspring, or simply another beggar on the street. I don't think anybody should welcome any of those situations becoming exacerbated. Of course, in your strange little world, lots of people will want to buy second homes in Hemel Hempstead and Baskingstoke... I'm not sure about 'Baskingstoke' (is that a town full of sharks?), but I know from family experience that a second home in Basingstoke isn't just something hedgehog has imagined. Ahhhh, Baskingstoke (sic) - Five roundabouts in search of a soul... |
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 17, 2017 18:57:23 GMT
Well some communities are starting to address the issue of second homes through the council tax, there could be covenants placed on dwellings, prehaps stating that they can't be used as a holiday home if there is a housing need in that town/village. Generally on housing, look at areas that are overheated and areas that are struggling, rebalance growth to the north, of course empty homes where possible should be brought back into occupation. Where new houses are needed brown field development should be prioritised, developers want green field sites because profits are higher. We should look at things like family breakdown, one of the main reasons why the demand for housing is so great, we meed to recognise that housing is a very complicated subject, the simplistic answer is free market, build more houses, that will be a very expensive sticking plaster. |
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Post by casualobserver on Feb 17, 2017 19:54:33 GMT
Knock all houses down. Then no one can have a first, let alone second, home. Careful, Arthur! Achieving some bogus equality by levelling down like that (pardon the pun) is a very Socialist solution. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 17, 2017 20:01:53 GMT
Knock all houses down. Then no one can have a first, let alone second, home. Careful, Arthur! Achieving some bogus equality by levelling down like that (pardon the pun) is a very Socialist solution. I'm trying to get into the mindset of a Green, where we are all scrabbling around in the dirt. |
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Feb 17, 2017 20:23:02 GMT
Careful, Arthur! Achieving some bogus equality by levelling down like that (pardon the pun) is a very Socialist solution. I'm trying to get into the mindset of a Green, where we are all scrabbling around in the dirt. The whole Green ideological approach is to create sustainable communities, scrabbling about in dirt, (if not done by choice), would come from complete ecological systems collapse, something Greens are trying to avoid  |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 23:13:12 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 23:27:35 GMT
Result imminent in Emmbrook. Brace yourselves.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 23:35:17 GMT
WOKINGHAM Emmbrook
Imogen Shepherd-DuBey, Liberal Democrat, 1,575
Kevin Morgan, Conservative, 879
Phil Ray, UK Independence Party, 104
Chris Everett, Labour, 79
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Post by cherrycoffin on Feb 17, 2017 23:35:22 GMT
Lib dem gain
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Post by yellowperil on Feb 17, 2017 23:47:20 GMT
that seems to suggest that the LibDems are still in top form against both Conservatives and Labour whatever happens against the nimby party
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Terry Weldon
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Councilor, Waverley BC and Haslemere TC. Lifelong liberal, in S Africa and now UK
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Post by Terry Weldon on Feb 17, 2017 23:50:21 GMT
Normal service is resumed. |
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