nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,065
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 26, 2021 11:44:10 GMT
A significant part of the SDP/Liberal "Alliance" appeal in the 1980s was the idea of two separate parties actually working together for the greater good, when this was shattered after the 1987 GE quite a few people decided they had been sold a pup (think of the reaction after May 2010, even if on a slightly smaller scale) Whilst most agreed with the merger, significant and vociferous minorities on both sides dissented and this did not help either. Plus there was the psychology of the '87 result to consider - whilst the Lib/SDP performance (especially the national vote share) appears perfectly respectable in isolation, many in both parties had seen this as the election where they would build on their 1983 showing to achieve the decisive breakthrough; this was only intensified by them winning the Greenwich byelection and then leading Labour in several polls. Both the strong Labour campaign in that GE, and the rather less impressive "Alliance" one, added to the sense of despair and frustration at the actual result. The comedown was real, and lasted for a few years. Those were my strong impressions as an outsider, anyway - maybe some of our yellow team who were around at the time might like to comment I wouldn't dissent from any of that, speaking as one who had been in the liberal minded wing of the SDP and who had come to the conclusion that merger was both necessary and inevitable. I had to deal with those "vociferous minorities", in my case mainly from the SDP right who then naturally enough drifted to the Tories - the Finkelsteiners one might say. In my case the less dogmatic SDPers who were ar first inclined towards the continuing SDP were eventually reconciled to the LibDems as Paddy and then Charles showed glimpses of what might be possible. Personally I saw very little sign of the continuing Liberals as a problem, except for the awkward squad members who would never identify with any political party that included anyone not in their own immediate circle. Someone described early SDp as Labour with the nasty bits knocked off and later SDP as the tories with the nasty bits knocked off!
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 26, 2021 12:47:42 GMT
The Liberals who didn't merge were strongly geographically concentrated. Liverpool, Kidderminster, Devon, Peterborough. Usually a group leader or similar high profile councillor who took a few with them. You also had the odd person who joined the LibDems but remained very critical of them. The Huddersfield-based Kirklees leadership of Robert Meadowcroft and John Smithson, and Cllr Cathy Hancox who sat as a LibDem but effectively operated as part of Steve Radford's small Liberal group in Liverpool
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Post by johnloony on Feb 26, 2021 13:47:17 GMT
Apart from 'Vision of Britain', are there any other good online resources for accessing historical maps? I've just moved house and would like to explore the boundary maps, particularly wards maps, of the area. So far all I've found are maps outlining the boundary of the metropolitan borough, but none which are as detailed to include wards. If I moved into a different area, my first thought would be to ask for a ward map from the elections department of the local council.
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 26, 2021 18:26:23 GMT
The Liberals who didn't merge were strongly geographically concentrated. Liverpool, Kidderminster, Devon, Peterborough. Usually a group leader or similar high profile councillor who took a few with them. You also had the odd person who joined the LibDems but remained very critical of them. The Huddersfield-based Kirklees leadership of Robert Meadowcroft and John Smithson, and Cllr Cathy Hancox who sat as a LibDem but effectively operated as part of Steve Radford's small Liberal group in Liverpool They had a couple of councillors in Slough, the leader being ex-labour.
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 26, 2021 18:33:35 GMT
The Liberals who didn't merge were strongly geographically concentrated. Liverpool, Kidderminster, Devon, Peterborough. Usually a group leader or similar high profile councillor who took a few with them. You also had the odd person who joined the LibDems but remained very critical of them. The Huddersfield-based Kirklees leadership of Robert Meadowcroft and John Smithson, and Cllr Cathy Hancox who sat as a LibDem but effectively operated as part of Steve Radford's small Liberal group in Liverpool They had a couple of councillors in Slough, the leader being ex-labour. I recall they held Haymill ward whivmch is now Slough's only fairly safe Tory ward
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Post by johnhemming on Feb 26, 2021 19:52:07 GMT
A lot of the stresses of "The Alliance" came from having two separate organisations. Inherently there would be a them and us sort of mentality develop even if there was not really any major ideological division.
Sadly this was not recognised at the start and hence it ended up creating problems. Without electoral reform there are real difficulties with multiple parties. In the same way as the USA that tends to create electoral choices between unpalatable options.
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Post by David Ashforth on Feb 26, 2021 20:53:35 GMT
Apart from 'Vision of Britain', are there any other good online resources for accessing historical maps? I've just moved house and would like to explore the boundary maps, particularly wards maps, of the area. So far all I've found are maps outlining the boundary of the metropolitan borough, but none which are as detailed to include wards. J.G.Harston has already mentioned the National Library for Scotland maps but this link is to maps of administrative boundaries (councils and wards).
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Post by mick745 on Feb 28, 2021 9:36:19 GMT
Is there a nuffield study available for the 2019 election, or is there one planned?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 28, 2021 10:25:55 GMT
Due to be published this year. Written by Paula Surridge, Tim Bale, Will Jennings, and Rob Ford.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,720
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 28, 2021 10:33:58 GMT
Not a bad group of writers tbf, at least Badwin is staying well away from it
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,065
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 28, 2021 11:42:24 GMT
Is there a nuffield study available for the 2019 election, or is there one planned? I emailed one of the authors target date about September
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,065
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 28, 2021 12:24:56 GMT
Is there a nuffield study available for the 2019 election, or is there one planned? I may have said I look for 5 book series after each election-the Nuffield out Septemberish as I said, Britain Votes-already purchased,Britain at the Polls on pre order for November, Political Communications-no date yet and since 1997 Sir Robert Worcester led Explaining series-though 2017 and 2019 will be dealt with in one book-no date
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Post by islington on Mar 1, 2021 10:21:44 GMT
Apart from 'Vision of Britain', are there any other good online resources for accessing historical maps? I've just moved house and would like to explore the boundary maps, particularly wards maps, of the area. So far all I've found are maps outlining the boundary of the metropolitan borough, but none which are as detailed to include wards. J.G.Harston has already mentioned the National Library for Scotland maps but this link is to maps of administrative boundaries (councils and wards). I've 'liked' this and I'm also quoting it to say that I'd award it multiple 'likes' if I could.
What a wonderful resource.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 1, 2021 11:02:51 GMT
I can't figure out how to get ward boundaries on that
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zoe
Conservative
Posts: 608
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Post by zoe on Mar 1, 2021 11:07:10 GMT
I can not get the link to work.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 1, 2021 11:09:36 GMT
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Post by islington on Mar 1, 2021 11:35:09 GMT
I can't figure out how to get ward boundaries on that The link should take you to the NLS key map for this particular series. When it comes up the currently-highlighted square shows Sheffield but you can use the buttons at top left of the key map to zoom out and then navigate to whatever part of the country interests you. Then click on the relevant square and a link will appear to the appropriate OS map, or maps, covering that area.
The OS maps show LA boundaries and wards (and I presume also parishes but I haven't looked in rural areas yet). It would be nice if they also showed Parliamentary boundaries but you can't have everything.
I've been looking at wards in inner London c1947 - fascinating stuff.
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Post by gerrardwinstanley on Mar 1, 2021 14:05:11 GMT
Apart from 'Vision of Britain', are there any other good online resources for accessing historical maps? I've just moved house and would like to explore the boundary maps, particularly wards maps, of the area. So far all I've found are maps outlining the boundary of the metropolitan borough, but none which are as detailed to include wards. J.G.Harston has already mentioned the National Library for Scotland maps but this link is to maps of administrative boundaries (councils and wards). Thank you; this is fantastic! I was looking for historic ward maps of Hackney - so this is perfect.
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Post by greenhert on Mar 6, 2021 20:42:27 GMT
Is there ever going to be a review of the current London Assembly seats, especially due to forecast electorate growth around the River Thames? Also, some of these London Assembly single member constituencies are poorly constructed: Waltham Forest should be paired with Redbridge, not Hackney and Islington, and Barking & Dagenham should be joined up with Havering, not the City, Newham and Tower Hamlets; the City of London should be with West Central.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 6, 2021 21:03:37 GMT
Is there ever going to be a review of the current London Assembly seats, especially due to forecast electorate growth around the River Thames? Also, some of these London Assembly single member constituencies are poorly constructed: Waltham Forest should be paired with Redbridge, not Hackney and Islington, and Barking & Dagenham should be joined up with Havering, not the City, Newham and Tower Hamlets; the City of London should be with West Central. There was a review in 2014 which concluded that no change should be made.
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