J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 7, 2020 9:31:39 GMT
These sorts of cartoons rely on emphasising characteristics to identify the people being portrayed, eg, emphasis Harold Wilson's pipe or Churchill's cigar. But that relies on the characterisation reflecting reality. I was convinced the one on the right wasn't Foot as the hair was too long, and he looks too tall. Powel looks like a bad Geoffrey Palmer. I thought the middle one might have been "eyebrows" Healy, but I never remembered him being associated with a pipe. And the one at the left is a complete unknown. Only Benn is characterised in a way reflecting realities, pipe, staring eyes, that haircut => Benn. I am rather puzzled by the amount of confusion and uncertainty being expressed by various people about this cartoon. I think that the four people in the front row are very obviously, easily, immediately and unambiguously recognisable as Peter Shore, Tony Benn, Ian Mikardo and Enoch Powell. Maybe they are of an age. I'm 52, the only one that lasted past the 1970s was Benn, so he's the only one I have any conscious recognition of. He was a prominent MP into the Blair era. Powell is a historical bogeyman who crops up in library news footage whenever somebody wants to make a point about race relations. Shore is unknown, and Mikardo is a G&S operetta. Checking Wiki, Shaw was an MP until 1997, which makes him extrordinarily obscure; and Ian Mikardo was an MP until 1987, and I'm sure I would have noticed a name like that in the 1980s, and I'm sure people like Spitting Image would have made heavy play of it.
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Post by John Chanin on Dec 7, 2020 9:32:36 GMT
These sorts of cartoons rely on emphasising characteristics to identify the people being portrayed, eg, emphasis Harold Wilson's pipe or Churchill's cigar. But that relies on the characterisation reflecting reality. I was convinced the one on the right wasn't Foot as the hair was too long, and he looks too tall. Powel looks like a bad Geoffrey Palmer. I thought the middle one might have been "eyebrows" Healy, but I never remembered him being associated with a pipe. And the one at the left is a complete unknown. Only Benn is characterised in a way reflecting realities, pipe, staring eyes, that haircut => Benn. I am rather puzzled by the amount of confusion and uncertainty being expressed by various people about this cartoon. I think that the four people in the front row are very obviously, easily, immediately and unambiguously recognisable as Peter Shore, Tony Benn, Ian Mikardo and Enoch Powell. The skill of the cartoonist in drawing them is not necessarily at an excellent standard, but it is good enough to make them clear and unambiguous. The only one I hesitated on slightly was Michael Foot at the end, because the glasses and hair are not quite right. Any suggestion that the middle one might be Harold Wilson or Eric Heffer is ridiculous, as is the impertinence of the tiny minority of young whippersnappers who are incorrectly not old enough to remember Peter Shore as being a very prominent and famous politician. As another person who lived through the period, all 5 were immediately identifiable, although I agree the caricature of Foot is less good.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 7, 2020 9:34:55 GMT
Agree. Peter Shore was spoken of as a future Labour leader/PM. He, Powell and Benn never reached their full potential. Foot did. Mikardo would be great for 24/7 news were he around today. But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year?
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hengo
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Post by hengo on Dec 7, 2020 9:49:14 GMT
But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name?
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 7, 2020 9:50:08 GMT
Jak was the second worst cartooonist of his era. Only Cummings was worse. I would nominate Mac (Stanley McMurtry) as being even worse. To the extent that "unfunny cartoon by Mac" became a regular Private Eye meme.
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hengo
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Post by hengo on Dec 7, 2020 9:51:00 GMT
But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name?
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hengo
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Post by hengo on Dec 7, 2020 9:51:30 GMT
But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name?
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middyman
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Post by middyman on Dec 7, 2020 9:53:34 GMT
Agree. Peter Shore was spoken of as a future Labour leader/PM. He, Powell and Benn never reached their full potential. Foot did. Mikardo would be great for 24/7 news were he around today. But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! When I was at university, a fellow student came from Leeds and was Jewish. His family had arrived in the UK from Lithuania with an unpronounceable name. They wanted to fit in with the local community and so searched for an English name. They had settled into the Jewish community and chose "Rosenberg" which they had thought was typically English and would help them blend in. Realising their error, they looked around for another name and selected "Rose". What could be more English?! Oh dear! They then "did a Battenberg" and adopted "Montrose" as their family name!
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ColinJ
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Post by ColinJ on Dec 7, 2020 9:56:27 GMT
Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name? I'm pretty sure it was Neville, not Norman. He was for a while a councillor in the LB of Brent.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 7, 2020 10:02:32 GMT
Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name? Yes. It was their father who made the name change and it became the family name
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ColinJ
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Post by ColinJ on Dec 7, 2020 10:07:58 GMT
I am rather puzzled by the amount of confusion and uncertainty being expressed by various people about this cartoon. I think that the four people in the front row are very obviously, easily, immediately and unambiguously recognisable as Peter Shore, Tony Benn, Ian Mikardo and Enoch Powell. The skill of the cartoonist in drawing them is not necessarily at an excellent standard, but it is good enough to make them clear and unambiguous. The only one I hesitated on slightly was Michael Foot at the end, because the glasses and hair are not quite right. Any suggestion that the middle one might be Harold Wilson or Eric Heffer is ridiculous, as is the impertinence of the tiny minority of young whippersnappers who are incorrectly not old enough to remember Peter Shore as being a very prominent and famous politician. Agree. Peter Shore was spoken of as a future Labour leader/PM. He, Powell and Benn never reached their full potential. Foot did. Mikardo would be great for 24/7 news were he around today. When I was growing up, the editorial team on BBC R4's 'The World This Weekend' would often turn to Ian Mikardo for an interview with a backbench Labour MP. I recall many a Sunday lunch with his deep, gravelly voice, booming out of the radio. I guess TWTW, in the early 1970s, was then the equivalent of rolling 24/7 news! I suppose it is generally well-known about Mikardo's contribution to Labour Party election day activity? While MP for Reading in the 1950s he supposedly perfected the system of the sheets of promises, used by knockers-up. The sheets, as small pads, were 'carbonised' to give multiple copies to be used throughout the day, and could prepared either by writing with ballpoint pen or by typing. These pads became known as 'Reading' pads in LP circles, although some CLPs called them 'Mikardo' pads.
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Post by hullenedge on Dec 7, 2020 10:14:10 GMT
Agree. Peter Shore was spoken of as a future Labour leader/PM. He, Powell and Benn never reached their full potential. Foot did. Mikardo would be great for 24/7 news were he around today. When I was growing up, the editorial team on BBC R4's 'The World This Weekend' would often turn to Ian Mikardo for an interview with a backbench Labour MP. I recall many a Sunday lunch with his deep, gravelly voice, booming out of the radio. I guess TWTW, in the early 1970s, was then the equivalent of rolling 24/7 news! I suppose it is generally well-known about Mikardo's contribution to Labour Party election day activity? While MP for Reading in the 1950s he supposedly perfected the system of the sheets of promises, used by knockers-up. The sheets, as small pads, were 'carbonised' to give multiple copies to be used throughout the day, and could prepared either by writing with ballpoint pen or by typing. These pads became known as 'Reading' pads in LP circles, although some CLPs called them 'Mikardo' pads. Thanks for mentioning the 'Reading system'. We copied it!
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 7, 2020 10:19:43 GMT
When I was growing up, the editorial team on BBC R4's 'The World This Weekend' would often turn to Ian Mikardo for an interview with a backbench Labour MP. I recall many a Sunday lunch with his deep, gravelly voice, booming out of the radio. I guess TWTW, in the early 1970s, was then the equivalent of rolling 24/7 news! I suppose it is generally well-known about Mikardo's contribution to Labour Party election day activity? While MP for Reading in the 1950s he supposedly perfected the system of the sheets of promises, used by knockers-up. The sheets, as small pads, were 'carbonised' to give multiple copies to be used throughout the day, and could prepared either by writing with ballpoint pen or by typing. These pads became known as 'Reading' pads in LP circles, although some CLPs called them 'Mikardo' pads. Thanks for mentioning the 'Reading system'. We copied it! Yes so did we at Ashford Conservatives and to the dismay of some we termed them 'Miks'.
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Post by minionofmidas on Dec 7, 2020 11:11:59 GMT
If anyone is interested in a foreign take on that cartoon frontline (big if)
I am well aware of Michael Foot and that's immediately recognizable as a bad caricature of Michael Foot. It's also placed so that it's the first figure you look at.
I am well aware of Tony Benn but even though that is actually a fair depiction of Benn he's less conspicuous than Foot here and I overlooked him at first glance.
I am well aware of Enoch Powell and I don't see him here. Also doesn't putting him in the front with the Labourites kind of destroy the cheap political point of the cartoon? He belongs in the back, next to the Orangeman perhaps.
I am well aware of Ian Mikardo by name but have no idea what he looked like, so cannot comment.
I have never heard of this Peter Shore fellow (the second person to catch the eye given the overall composition) and if you keep talking him up like that I'm going to have to look him up on wikipedia.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 7, 2020 11:21:34 GMT
If anyone is interested in a foreign take on that cartoon frontline (big if) I am well aware of Michael Foot and that's immediately recognizable as a bad caricature of Michael Foot. It's also placed so that it's the first figure you look at. I am well aware of Tony Benn but even though that is actually a fair depiction of Benn he's less conspicuous than Foot here and I overlooked him at first glance. I am well aware of Enoch Powell and I don't see him here. Also doesn't putting him in the front with the Labourites kind of destroy the cheap political point of the cartoon? He belongs in the back, next to the Orangeman perhaps. I am well aware of Ian Mikardo by name but have no idea what he looked like, so cannot comment. I have never heard of this Peter Shore fellow (the second person to catch the eye given the overall composition) and if you keep talking him up like that I'm going to have to look him up on wikipedia. Which really does show how some are very famous in their own time, but soon forgotten by nearly everybody. Rest assured from those who do remember, in his day he was a very big beast indeed.
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Post by islington on Dec 7, 2020 11:30:26 GMT
Jak was the second worst cartooonist of his era. Only Cummings was worse. I would nominate Mac (Stanley McMurtry) as being even worse. They were all conspicuously lacking in either wit or insight. But in Cummings' defence, he could at least draw, which is more than you can say for the other two.
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Post by finsobruce on Dec 7, 2020 12:21:23 GMT
Agreed! I met his brother (Norman?) a few times. He was also Mikardo, so did the whole family adopt the name? I'm pretty sure it was Neville, not Norman. He was for a while a councillor in the LB of Brent. Neville was his first name and Norman his middle name which he used more generally.
Councillor for the Tokyngton ward of Brent council (1978-82).
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 7, 2020 12:22:08 GMT
I think Ian Mikardo is now fairly obscure now for most people under say about 60 even for political "obsessives" (sorry well-informed) on this forum as while doing some googling about him as I didn't know much about him I found that he was clearly an influential Labour MP but he was never a minister unlike the others. I'm barely in my 50s and I was aware of him as a significant political figure* when I became politicised in the 1980s - certainly less significant than the others in the front row of that cartoon (which was why, despite the fact I was fairly sure I recognised him, I wasn't sure it was him) *There may be a regional element possibly as he was a London MP (then) and would have featured on regional TV news etc but I should have thought he was well known nationally at the time as well
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 7, 2020 12:48:32 GMT
But - we talk about Powell and Benn because they both opted to be mavericks. I think in that sense they fulfilled their potential but in a different way. Shore has been forgotten but his opposition to the EU was far more robust and theoretically developed than anyone else on the left. Mikardo was a character and yes, he would be interesting to have around today. He was at the time a strong Zionist but I'm not sure what he would think now. His name came about because his father found that no one could spell or pronounce the very long Eastern European surname so he decided to choose something English. The Mikado was showing at a theatre so he chose that name but spelt it wrong adding the extra R when he registered the name change! Oh Mike, thank you for that about the surname change. I had always wondered why he had such an odd name. What a good story. My fact of the week and the month, and possibly of the year? Considering that most people pronounce Mikado wrong, it's an understandable mistake.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 7, 2020 12:57:33 GMT
Who the hell is the one between Churchill and Major? Is it supposed to be Gordon Brown? Or is it Teresa May? That was by process of elimination! I assume the person between Heath and Charles is meant to be Cameron?
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