Ask the Forum thread- psephology

[andrewp]

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

[Crimson King]

Feb 6, 2024 15:49:45 GMT andrewp said:

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

That is bizarre, why on earth would refusing to stand down when you have won an election end up in the courts

[jamesdoyle]

Feb 6, 2024 15:55:17 GMT Crimson King said:

Feb 6, 2024 15:49:45 GMT andrewp said:

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

That is bizarre, why on earth would refusing to stand down when you have won an election end up in the courts

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1386974.stm

[andrewteale]

Feb 6, 2024 15:49:45 GMT andrewp said:

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

Davıd Boothroyd posted a list of successful election petitions a few years ago at vote-2012.proboards.com/post/27471/thread. Holmes' election was voided - two votes wrongly included in the count.

EDIT: and the Lib Dems won the resulting by-election by seven votes.

[andrewp]

Feb 6, 2024 16:48:53 GMT andrewteale said:

Feb 6, 2024 15:49:45 GMT andrewp said:

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

Davıd Boothroyd posted a list of successful election petitions a few years ago at vote-2012.proboards.com/post/27471/thread. Holmes' election was voided - two votes wrongly included in the count.

EDIT: and the Lib Dems won the resulting by-election by seven votes.

Was Tommy Rowe, the original ‘loser’, the winner of the by election? I see he won the division in 2005 ( as an Independent) and Holmes came 3rd but is shown as the sitting councillor in the local election handbook. 

[J.G.Harston]

Feb 6, 2024 16:48:53 GMT andrewteale said:

Feb 6, 2024 15:49:45 GMT andrewp said:

In the Cornishman newspaper this week ( which covers West Cornwall) there is an obituary for Ann Holmes, who was the ex wife of Paul Holmes, Liberal/ SDP and then breakaway Liberal Cornwall county councillor (1985-2009) and many time parliamentary candidate for the Liberal party

Part of the obituary says ‘ in 2001, Paul was re elected to Cornwall County council with a majority of just one vote. Ann was then visited by a Liberal Democrat demanding Paul’s resignation to allow a by election to be held. Paul refused and was taken to court in the Royal Courts of Justice in London. The stress on Ann resulted in the couple divorcing after 35 years of marriage and the loss of their home. Both ended up in temporary accommodation’

Obviously that could well be one side of the story, but is that a case known to anyone? A) I wonder what sort of demands were made and why? and b) he remained as a councillor so the legal case wasnt successful and c) I wonder if they lost their house due to legal costs?

Davıd Boothroyd posted a list of successful election petitions a few years ago at vote-2012.proboards.com/post/27471/thread. Holmes' election was voided - two votes wrongly included in the count.

EDIT: and the Lib Dems won the resulting by-election by seven votes.

"Rowe v. Cox and Rule 47(1)(d)" makes it clear that a cross crossing out the whole ballot paper (regardless of if the centre crosses a candidate box) is a void ballot. If it wants to be upheld as a vote for a candidate it has to be sure it's indicating a single candidate by not overlapping into all the other candidates.
Eg, with five candidates and a cross centred on candidate 3 but extending across 1,2,4,5 is clearly void. A cross centred on candidate 3 over overlapping into 2 and 4 is acceptable as a vote for candidate 3 - it can be argued the voter's writing ability is frail, but has done their best to indicate candidate 3.

From what has been described, the two voided ballots were clearly a "none of these" crossing out of the whole ballot, it's just a fluke there were an odd number of spaces which resulted in the centre of the cross coincided with a candidate.

Edit: None of which justifies harrassing the flawedly elected candidate and their family.

[Crimson King]

Thanks for all that. It demonstrates the lack of understanding of the obit writers of the details of election law. Presumably the visit asking him to stand down was an attempt to rerun the election without the effort and expense of a petition. As written it sounds like the Lib Dems thought a close result was grounds for a rerun (cue brexit jokes) no mention of a possible irregularity

[bjornhattan]

Is anyone aware if there any surviving maps (or data files) of the boundaries proposed in the aborted 2013 review?

[John Chanin]

Feb 7, 2024 13:25:57 GMT bjornhattan said:

Is anyone aware if there any surviving maps (or data files) of the boundaries proposed in the aborted 2013 review?

I have a spreadsheet which shows the proposed seats in both zombie reviews. If you pm me your email address I will send it to you. 

Unfortunately I deleted the actual Boundary Commission reports. 

[kevinlarkin]

Feb 7, 2024 13:25:57 GMT bjornhattan said:

Is anyone aware if there any surviving maps (or data files) of the boundaries proposed in the aborted 2013 review?

If you are still looking for information I have the initial and revised proposals documents from the four commissions and the mapping data used in boundary assistant for the revised proposals. DM me if you want any of this.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

I've kept all the maps from 2013 but if you want to study them yourself, try the archived PBCE page: webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130403085731/http://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/

Here's the Boundary Commission for Wales just before the 2013 review was shut down: webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130106142029/http://bcomm-wales.gov.uk/splash?orig=/

And the Boundary Commission for Scotland: webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130128103237/http://www.bcomm-scotland.independent.gov.uk/

And here's the Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland: wayback.archive-it.org/11112/20150220015829/http://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/index/current-review.htm

[peterl]

Following today's events, I'm wondering can the House of Commons remove the speaker mid-term, i.e. without waiting until after the general election? Has this ever happened before?

[stb12]

Feb 21, 2024 17:01:14 GMT peterl said:

Following today's events, I'm wondering can the House of Commons remove the speaker mid-term, i.e. without waiting until after the general election? Has this ever happened before?

If a No Confidence motion passes a speaker would step down I’m sure, whether that’s a rule or would technically just be convention I’m not sure

[jamesdoyle]

I'm sure this must be out there somewhere but I'm not sure where to look - and someone on here will surely have the info or link at their fingertips!

How many principal authority councillors did the Conservatives have following the 2023 local elections? And how many after 2022, 2021, etc.?

Thanks guys!

[Pete Whitehead]

opencouncildata.co.uk/councillors2.php?y=0

[Clark]

Can anyone provide me with a link that shows a list of all seats ranked in order of safety following the recent notionals?

[greyfriar]

order-order.com/2024/03/13/greg-smith-standing-against-greg-smith-in-election/

An electoral first to have two identically named candidates on the ballot paper?

[The Bishop]

Almost certainly not, even at parliamentary level - paging Davıd Boothroyd?

(and this means genuine cases, not stuff like people changing their name to the likes of "Roy Jenkins" by deed poll)

[johnloony]

Mar 14, 2024 13:00:43 GMT greyfriar said:

order-order.com/2024/03/13/greg-smith-standing-against-greg-smith-in-election/

An electoral first to have two identically named candidates on the ballot paper?

I very much doubt it. Do they have different middle names/initials?

In Addiscombe ward, Croydon in 2002, the People's Choice Party had three candidates who included Steve P. Collins and Steve D.A. Collins (no relation). In Anglesey constituency, there were three candidates called Hughes, and in 1964 there were three candidates called Jones. In both cases, all three candidates had different initials.

[greatkingrat]

There was "Roy Harold Jenkins" in the Glasgow Hillhead 1982 by-election, although that was a deliberate change of name rather than a coincidence.