Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 15:05:55 GMT
Excellent result. Well done the Dutch. Brexit supporters showing off their outward facing, internationalist world view again. That reminds of something I've been meaning to bring up actually. During the Scottish referendum, we were told ad nauseam by Labour politicians how they don't care if a worker is in Glasgow or Liverpool, and how we should support workers wherever they are (i.e. how they are international socialists). I don't hear anywhere near enough of that in this referendum. We talk about contributions to the EU budget as though it all goes straight into Juncker's pocket, rather than discussing the moral value and economic soundness of the use of structural funds to help poorer regions catch up. |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,937 
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Apr 7, 2016 19:15:59 GMT
Excellent result. Well done the Dutch. Brexit supporters showing off their outward facing, internationalist world view again. Correct. Well spotted. |
|
mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,961
|
Post by mondialito on Apr 7, 2016 19:19:52 GMT
Which one is the poxy little blue island and why? Assume the blue areas are urban and tend to the left or stuffed with foreigners? ...and that attitude shows why you won't get enough people to back Brexit here. |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,937
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Apr 7, 2016 19:43:38 GMT
Mondialito. What did you mean?
The questions posed were quite genuine. Sorry about the 'poxy', but odd one island should be different. I was interested.
By foreign, I assumed others from the EU working in Holland and looking to the EU for 'Freedom of Movement' thus voting Yes (if entitled to do so?).
You may have thought I meant refugees and other non-EU immigrants? I didn't, but the same reasoning would hold good for them as well.
Why would my personal views be known to anyone or have any effect on the Brexit vote whether known or not known? I am really interested in your response.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 20:11:01 GMT
|
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,937
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Apr 7, 2016 20:29:22 GMT
Which one is the poxy little blue island and why? Assume the blue areas are urban and tend to the left or stuffed with foreigners? Well three of the 'blue islands' are Amsterdam, Utrecht and Groningham as well as some neighbouring municipalities Two other 'blue Islands' are the towns of Wageningen and Rozendaal and it looks like they were the only two areas to vote over 60% for. I had never heard of these before but according to Wikipedia the first has an unusually high population of International students, the second is one of the richest municipalities in the Netherlands. I meant water surrounded conventional island. |
|
mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,961
|
Post by mondialito on Apr 7, 2016 20:34:01 GMT
...and that attitude shows why you won't get enough people to back Brexit here. Saying that foreigners are less likely to vote for Brexit isn't an 'attitude'. Its just a statement of fact. The attitude that many Brexiteers seem to have is that everyone who is opposed to them must be foreign or part of the establishment when people may have pragmatic reasons for wanting to stay in. It's the same attitude that screams 'fearmongering' when any argument is propsed for remain while Leave bangs on about rapists and murderers to do exactly the same. Hypocritical screeching that will turn many people off voting leave. |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,937
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Apr 7, 2016 20:37:39 GMT
Saying that foreigners are less likely to vote for Brexit isn't an 'attitude'. Its just a statement of fact. The attitude that many Brexiteers seem to have is that everyone who is opposed to them must be foreign or part of the establishment when people may have pragmatic reasons for wanting to stay in. It's the same attitude that screams 'fearmongering' when any argument is propsed for remain while Leave bangs on about rapists and murderers to do exactly the same. Hypocritical screeching that will turn many people off voting leave. Yes. Correct. I do see those who disagree with me as in a manner 'foreign'. No. You are wrong. It won't make any difference to the general personal vote. |
|
carlton43
Reform Party
Posts: 50,937
Member is Online
|
Post by carlton43 on Apr 7, 2016 20:49:44 GMT
I meant water surrounded conventional island. Apparently its called Vlieland, not many people it seems, turnout was 406. Perhaps EU money to subsidise sea defences/ferry/IT/schools/delivery costs? |
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 7, 2016 21:08:17 GMT
It's worth remembering this wasn't actually a referendum about EU membership, it was a referendum about a fairly minor treaty which most of the electorate ignored and a small subset used to express dissatisfaction with the EU.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,796
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Apr 9, 2016 22:40:43 GMT
...and that attitude shows why you won't get enough people to back Brexit here. Saying that foreigners are less likely to vote for Brexit isn't an 'attitude'. Its just a statement of fact. But do any 'foreigners' actually get a vote? Just asking like. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,796
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Apr 10, 2016 0:36:02 GMT
But do any 'foreigners' actually get a vote? Just asking like. Don't you know the answer? Do you? |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
|
Post by maxque on Apr 10, 2016 8:52:08 GMT
Yes I do. The answer is yes. There will be foreigners getting a vote in the upcoming EU referendum. Does that match your answer? Indeed, non-whites and people who can't prove their English ancestry up to the 15th century will be allowed to vote. What a shame. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 9:12:34 GMT
For anyone not understanding the rather simple concept of 'some foreigners will get a vote in the referendum' here is the relevant section of the referendum Act It's fairly clear that virtually every Irish, Cypriot and Maltese voter will support Remain. But I think the picture will be very different with the rest of the commonwealth. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,796
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Apr 10, 2016 9:57:53 GMT
It's worth remembering this wasn't actually a referendum about EU membership, it was a referendum about a fairly minor treaty which most of the electorate ignored and a small subset used to express dissatisfaction with the EU. That is why I dislike referenda. They are often used as a means to kick the Goverment, or in this case the EU, up the arse. There is also the situation that happens regularly in Ireland where voting 'no' in EU treaty referenda is standard practice to extract more pork. |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Apr 10, 2016 10:33:05 GMT
It's fairly clear that virtually every Irish, Cypriot and Maltese voter will support Remain. But I think the picture will be very different with the rest of the commonwealth. I would agree with that. I don't think that was john07 and maxque 's issue however. I suspect their issue is that I used the word 'foreigner' at all. I suspect that they are both of the school of thought that says "how terrible to use that word, we're all human beings and no distictions should be made between UK citizens and citizens of other countries".
This is an example of why political correctness concerns itself with language. My use of the word 'foreigner' was quite neutral, it implied no positive or negative moral judgement of the foreigners in question. And yet john07 and maxque still objected to my use of the term because the term itself draws a distinction that they think should not be drawn. I thought you knew john07 better than that... |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,797
|
Post by right on Apr 27, 2016 7:37:40 GMT
It's worth remembering this wasn't actually a referendum about EU membership, it was a referendum about a fairly minor treaty which most of the electorate ignored and a small subset used to express dissatisfaction with the EU. That is why I dislike referenda. They are often used as a means to kick the Goverment, or in this case the EU, up the arse. There is also the situation that happens regularly in Ireland where voting 'no' in EU treaty referenda is standard practice to extract more pork. Leave's game plan? |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,796
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Apr 27, 2016 9:33:05 GMT
That is why I dislike referenda. They are often used as a means to kick the Goverment, or in this case the EU, up the arse. There is also the situation that happens regularly in Ireland where voting 'no' in EU treaty referenda is standard practice to extract more pork. Leave's game plan? Boris seemed to be suggesting that at one stage. In the 1975 Referendum, Barbara Castle was a strong advocate of 'out'. She subsequently suggested it was aimed at getting a better deal from the EEC. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 11:35:18 GMT
 More "for" than average = blue, more "against" than average = red  |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,797
|
Post by right on Apr 28, 2016 19:58:28 GMT
Boris seemed to be suggesting that at one stage. In the 1975 Referendum, Barbara Castle was a strong advocate of 'out'. She subsequently suggested it was aimed at getting a better deal from the EEC. Would Wilson have renegotiated or left? We know that Cameron (or any conceivable alternative including Boris and Gove) would renegotiate, but Wilson would have lost his party, surely? |
|
